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Post by cclbro2 on May 18, 2009 8:25:28 GMT -5
I am going to try to be as calm as possible throughout this thread, but I would like to gets people opinion regarding the article that came out in the latest Volleyball Mag. They started the article with a quote Lloy Ball had in his latest book saying Men's Volleyball is a dying sport... This is not a thread to comment on Lloy, but I would like to hear what people think about the state of Men's Volleyball.
Two quick points I would like to bring up, and then I will open it to everyone.
1. The article stated that Doug Beal and company have done "everything they can" to help Men's Volleyball grow. (D III schools I want your opinion on this)
2. What have we done as a nation to promote Men's Volleyball on a large scale?
Thank you for your thoughts!
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Post by cyberVBmidwest on May 18, 2009 11:06:14 GMT -5
You are referring to the quarterly USAV magazine and not the Volleyball Magazine that is independently published, correct?
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Post by slamjam on May 18, 2009 12:14:13 GMT -5
I play club volleyball. This year there was 3 men's divisions, all with 45 or more teams in each division. And thats only the good teams, the leagues on the east coast are huge, but not good... yet. My frustration is that club gets no recognition even though the top 8 club teams could compete at a Division 1 level.
Answering your question, it seems in my area, (California Central Valley) volleyball hit a slump, but it was a sucky skill slump. People were playing but not very many good players came out of the high schools for 4-5 years. It seems it has picked up, but I like to consider that generation the generation that chose to play video games instead of sports.
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Post by bunnywailer on May 18, 2009 12:39:38 GMT -5
Men's volleyball as a NCAA varsity sport is dying. Men's volleyball as an Olympic sport is dying. Both are Doug Beal's fault and his fault alone.
Men's volleyball as a club sport is growing, mostly because Doug Beal and his cronies have no interest in meddling in it and thus it is free to grown and prosper on its own. In a way, I like this. One of the most positive factors about men's collegiate club volleyball is that the guys who play on club teams do it because they truly love the sport, and not because some scholarship money or the allure of playing for some NCAA program has bound them.
Beal and the (lack of) USA braintrust have had ample opportunities to expand interest in men's volleyball over the past 2 decades - but their lack of foresight and their selfishness/exclusiveness in allowing the sport to grow on its own accord is preventing the sport from ever getting above its given image as a minor, country club sport only played by white, upper middle class people (who are preferably from a relatively small geographical area in Southern California- because, as we all know, the best volleyball players only come from SoCal).
The USA has just come off its best-ever performance in volleyball in an Olympic quadrennial. Ever. And what has become of this? Absolutely nothing.
So, screw Doug Beal and USA volleyball. Small-minded and parochial. Keep your sport the way it is and be happy with it. The rest of the USA doesn't really give a crap about volleyball, particularly men's volleyball.
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Post by vball808 on May 18, 2009 13:07:41 GMT -5
Bob you are right. This is the time to strike when it comes to expansion. Mens volleyball could be a solid sport again, but people arent willing to take risks or anything like that.
one final thing you forgot to add... There are no World University Games this year because of funding (which is a crock of crap). The kids in this age are getting the short end of the stick and it saddens me. Just another example of how USAV is screwing up
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Post by rhinovb14 on May 18, 2009 13:36:43 GMT -5
Men's volleyball as a NCAA varsity sport is dying. Men's volleyball as an Olympic sport is dying. Both are Doug Beal's fault and his fault alone. Men's volleyball as a club sport is growing, mostly because Doug Beal and his cronies have no interest in meddling in it and thus it is free to grown and prosper on its own. In a way, I like this. One of the most positive factors about men's collegiate club volleyball is that the guys who play on club teams do it because they truly love the sport, and not because some scholarship money or the allure of playing for some NCAA program has bound them. Beal and the (lack of) USA braintrust have had ample opportunities to expand interest in men's volleyball over the past 2 decades - but their lack of foresight and their selfishness/exclusiveness in allowing the sport to grow on its own accord is preventing the sport from ever getting above its given image as a minor, country club sport only played by white, upper middle class people (who are preferably from a relatively small geographical area in Southern California- because, as we all know, the best volleyball players only come from SoCal). The USA has just come off its best-ever performance in volleyball in an Olympic quadrennial. Ever. And what has become of this? Absolutely nothing. So, screw Doug Beal and USA volleyball. Small-minded and parochial. Keep your sport the way it is and be happy with it. The rest of the USA doesn't really give a crap about volleyball, particularly men's volleyball. I would like to comment that Matt Anderson is from Buffalo NY. So, the Best players don't ALWAYS come from SoCal. Mostly, yes. Buffalo high school volleyball is pretty solid considering we still have snow on our "beaches" err...I mean rocks. |
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Post by notsocal2 on May 18, 2009 14:14:30 GMT -5
V-ball is growing at a social and high school and even college club level - despite the "efforts" of some of the "higher ups".
GrandsonBob - hits a lot of great points, and certainly doesn't throw any punches. And really unfortunate that at the D1 and other more sponsored levels there isn't much growth or interest - a shame.
I like the growth of beach - sure its kind of spectator and social and not 6's, but its better than nothing. But as for the higher levels - just too bad, and would think with the success of both mens and womens in the past olympics there might be more.
Too bad - but Mr. Beal and Mr. Ball probably need to do a bit more and I'm a bit disappointed at their results.
Whose next!?
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Post by bunnywailer on May 18, 2009 14:29:35 GMT -5
If the sport of volleyball is to grow in this country, it most certainly won't be spearheaded by anything USAV does. They have already proven they don't want to roll up their sleeves and partner with other organizations who could bring the sport to a more diverse background.
In order for volleyball to expand in the USA, the sport needs to be taught properly at the earliest stages of development. That means fixing the perception of volleyball as taught in elementary and middle schools, and reaching out to other developmental strategies and organizations such as Boy's and Girl's clubs, YMCAs, and local Parks and Recreation departments. And volleyball leadership (whoever that may eventually be) needs to stop looking down their noses at "outsiders" who are not part of the existing volleyball culture in this country. Go to any JO tournament if you need to see snobbish, cliquish behavior, or try to get in a local pick up game at any established volleyball gym and you will witness the "insider/outsider" behavior first hand.
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beachdude
Junior
The Volleyball Made Me Do it!
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Post by beachdude on May 18, 2009 14:32:34 GMT -5
SOBB, quit buffoning up the board. Do it now. Stop before you make one more bad comment. Is it Doug Beal's fault that title 9 is forcing schools to cut not just volleyball but other men's "Olympic" sports like wrestling, swimming and gymnastics?
Why is the women's game more popular than the men's? Two words SOBB Buffon: scholarship opportunity. About 5000 scholarships for the women and about 80 for the men. Get it?
Let's hold Doug Beal responsible for the fact football is so popular with their 85 free rides.
I would think that Doug and every region would want more men's teams as to have them pay their $45 in dues every year.
Let's hold Doug Beal responsible for the fact that the men just won 2 golds and the women 1 gold and a silver. Let's see if any country can ever match that!
At least give Doug a one year grace period from last August when we kicked the worlds collective asses in Beijing.
Stop. Just stop.
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Post by bunnywailer on May 18, 2009 15:33:24 GMT -5
SOBB, quit buffoning up the board. Do it now. Stop before you make one more bad comment. Is it Doug Beal's fault that title 9 is forcing schools to cut not just volleyball but other men's "Olympic" sports like wrestling, swimming and gymnastics? Why is the women's game more popular than the men's? Two words SOBB Buffon: scholarship opportunity. About 5000 scholarships for the women and about 80 for the men. Get it? Let's hold Doug Beal responsible for the fact football is so popular with their 85 free rides. I would think that Doug and every region would want more men's teams as to have them pay their $45 in dues every year. Let's hold Doug Beal responsible for the fact that the men just won 2 golds and the women 1 gold and a silver. Let's see if any country can ever match that! At least give Doug a one year grace period from last August when we kicked the worlds collective asses in Beijing. Stop. Just stop. Haha. Beachdude the Beal apologist. Yeah, the sport of women's volleyball is such a BIG PLAYA in the realm of spectator sports in the USA that Title IX is solely responsible for its popularity at the expense of men's volleyball, is that what you're saying beachdude? Well, lemme clue you in, NEITHER sport is popular in the scheme of things. All Title IX did was artificially bolster up volleyball participation amongst a non-diverse (aka WHITE) population of females, and then only temporarily (translation: these women play volleyball only for a limited number of years when scholarship opportunities make it viable to aspire to play volleyball in college, and while playing volleyball in college). The success of volleyball in the USA is not measured in Olympic-centric terms. Get that through your thick skull. Who cares how many Olympic medals the USA wins in the next 10 Olympics if NOBODY CARES and NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY. What do young boys in the neighborhood want to play in their free time? Oh yeah, volleyball is RIGHT UP THERE with basketball, baseball, skateboarding, and XBox isn't it beachdude? And what do the Joe Ham-n-Eggers of the world wanna play in their local rec league after work? Hint: Not volleyball. If you build interest in the sport of volleyball within the general public, then the sport will grow and prosper. Those little kids that played volleyball in the street will want to continue to play volleyball as they get older. Those Ham-n-Eggers who play in the local rec league and enjoy doing so will influence their talented athletic kids to gravitate towards volleyball. In the 8-18 year old male demographic, there's probably more kids that know how to play tetherball or kickball than know how to play volleyball. |
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Post by ucsdfan on May 18, 2009 16:04:12 GMT -5
Is it Doug Beal's fault blah blah blah...? Let's hold Doug Beal... more blah blah blah. I would think that Doug... some additional blah blah blah. Let's hold Doug Beal... a little more knee-pad using blah blah blah. At least give Doug... yet some more tounge tarnishing blah blah blah. Are you friggen serious? If your boy Doug is so wonderful, please explain to me why after the best year in USA volleyball ever (from Summer 2007 through Summer 2008) that the women's coach quit, the men's coach quit, the men's assistant coach quit, and we are back at square one despite returning so much of both our Men's and Women's teams. SOBB generally spells it out with very little fluff, but he opted for insultlite when describing you, stopping at apologist. His post is pretty much right on the mark, but apparently candor doesn't sit well with you. Beal is everything that is wrong with this sport. The irony of USA volleyball is amazing. If you look around the world, soccer and volleyball are king, because all you need is some open space and a ball. Just one ball, a piece of string, and a couple trees (or polls); the ultimate in low cost. It's a sport for the poor people throughout the world, so the pool of potential players is huge internationally. But not here in the US; it's friggen elitist beyond belief. A kid can play ice hockey (equipment, ice rink, and insurance costs being as high as they are) for less than club volleyball. What the hell? US volleyball is a sport for the rich, and the relatively small popularity of it is a direct result. Could you imagine if someone like Kobe Bryant or Lebron James took up volleyball for a a few years? Look at marginal NBA players like Jack Haley and Keith Erikson who were both fantastic volleyball players. If the sport had a grass root appeal it could prosper as it does in other countries. In a country where we have profession team tennis for crying out loud, there is no pro indoor volleyball league. We have people watch four-wheeled cigarette ads drive in circles for two or three hours, yet we can't sell the most exciting live sport on the planet? Beal needs to recognize his shortcomings: marketing and public relations. There is no excuse why we shouldn't see a surge in volleyball popularity following Olympic greatness. If the sports dies out (which it never will, because there will always be a cult following), it will be due to Beal and his cronies. |
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Post by prouddad on May 18, 2009 16:44:53 GMT -5
Was Jack Haley really an outstanding volleyball player? Did he play for Scates?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2009 18:22:19 GMT -5
Did Jack Haley play volleyball? I'm thinking of the Jack Haley who was on the 1996 Chicago Bulls. He did play basketball at UCLA. Volleyball too???
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Post by ucsdfan on May 18, 2009 18:40:14 GMT -5
Did Jack Haley play volleyball? I'm thinking of the Jack Haley who was on the 1996 Chicago Bulls. He did play basketball at UCLA. Volleyball too??? He only played basketball at UCLA. From what I understand (hearsay at best), he could have started on the volleyball team right after basketball season if Farmer would have let him play a second sport. I remember the rumblings that when Hazzard took over that Haley might do a double, but apparently he didn't. Kind of the same thing with Chase Budinger, who probably would have been an AA volleyball player had the NBA allure not pulled him away. I should have compared Haley to Budinger, and not put him in the same sentence as Erikson (who actually played). In fact, I believe Keith Erikson has the record for national championships (five) for an individual. |
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Post by cyberVBmidwest on May 18, 2009 18:48:06 GMT -5
Not enough history on how USAV was run to add or counter to the arguments presented. I have a different question on this same topic.
If everyone on VT went out and volunteered to create a grass roots league for boys volleyball say 5th or 6th grade and stayed with it for say 5 to 10 years, would the sport of men's volleyball be better off after 10 years?
Is that grass roots enough? Thoughts?
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