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Post by dawgsfan on Oct 26, 2011 22:08:13 GMT -5
Just want to see what some people think about the RPI and how legitimate the rankings are. I am having some trouble understanding how the RPI rankings are even computed, because they appear to be very inaccurate. Teams in weak conferences appear to be rewarded for walking through their schedules while other teams in far more competitive conferences are hurt.
UNI top 4? Yes they are a very good team, but have played 3-4 noteworthy teams all season long (A lot like Washington a few weeks ago; UNI has beat a few solid teams, but has also lost to a team with 7 losses). Seems a little high for a team with little else to show they are battle tested, but maybe the teams are so equal this year that somebody has to take it.
SEC teams seem to be getting some type of RPI ranking that includes football strength because to see three SEC teams in the Top-16 is crazy. The top 3 are just beating up on everyone else, and overall the conference is fairly weak. The Top 3 are solid, but their records are inflated due to the lack of talent throughout.
There is an abundance of weaker conference teams in the 20-35 range; which I don't necessarily have a problem with, but to say that some of those teams are better than Michigan State, Washington, Arizona, Cal, and some others seems a little far fetched. How is Northern Illinois 2 spots ahead of Cal? I would love to see the Vegas odds on a match-up between those two (though Vegas would never put odds on a college volleyball match). If Northern Illinois was picked to go more than 3, I would make some big money betting on Cal.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 26, 2011 22:23:18 GMT -5
The RPI is biased towards the East Coast. It's bad, and it's not a good metric for selecting a national tournament.
The WCC is 4-1 against the ACC. The WCC will get 2 teams and the ACC 4 teams in the tournament - but there's no reason to believe Duke & NC are any better than St. Marys, SF, & BYU. (Especially since St. Marys beat Duke).
The Big East would get 4 teams in - now that's a real bad joke. The the MAC would get 3 teams. Based on RPI this week. It's not that Ball State, Illinois State, & Western Michigan are bad, but what wins do they have that indicate they are any better than the western teams that have as good or better wins, but have lower or much lower RPI (like Long Beach, St. Marys, San Francisco, BYU, Oregon State)? Aside from FSU of the ACC, I would take Oregon State on a neutral site as even money or better against everyone else from those conferences.
Not that they are bad conferences, but RPI masks the teams strength because of the RPI bias from scheduling predominately east of the Mississippi. Hawaii makes out better this year because they got Cinncinnati, Ohio State, & Rice to come to islands pre-season, but they'll keep slipping RPI as WAC play goes on.
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Post by dawgsfan on Oct 26, 2011 22:38:23 GMT -5
I mean shoot, USC who is a team that I have been behind as a top team all year, is at 10. They haven't lost since the 9th of September, and their 2 other losses came early in the season as well. I would easily place them at #4 instead of UNI.
The Big 10 is by far the strongest conference in my mind so I understand why their teams are ranked so high, but I would be hard pressed to find another conference stronger than the Pac 12 from top to bottom. I could see Pac-12 #8 Oregon State, being in the top 3 of the ACC and SEC, with teams like Oregon, Arizona, and Washington being at the top of those conferences, yet they are being punished for having to play the likes of USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Cal among others. Only see about 4-5 teams outside of the Pac-12 that could get through the Top 8 in the Pac 12 without at least 4 losses (in just the 8 matches).
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Post by gilles13 on Oct 26, 2011 22:38:26 GMT -5
You're kinda late but also correct...RPI is a hugely flawed system and there is disdain for it pretty much across the board on volleytalk.
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Post by dawgsfan on Oct 26, 2011 22:41:45 GMT -5
You're kinda late but also correct...RPI is a hugely flawed system and there is disdain for it pretty much across the board on volleytalk. Sorry, I did look for a thread but didn't feel like going back much further than 2-3 pages. I figured there had been some discussion on this topic over the past few weeks; so I'm sure some of this is redundant.
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Post by gilles13 on Oct 26, 2011 22:46:11 GMT -5
and btw I'm pretty sure it's a mathematical algorithm of some sort so I don't think it's biased necessarily. The flaws of the system manifest themselves by producing both brutal and cakewalk regions in the post season.
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Post by chipNdink on Oct 26, 2011 22:48:05 GMT -5
You're kinda late but also correct...RPI is a hugely flawed system and there is disdain for it pretty much across the board on volleytalk. Sorry, I did look for a thread but didn't feel like going back much further than 2-3 pages. I figured there had been some discussion on this topic over the past few weeks; so I'm sure some of this is redundant. Not just past few weeks, try past MANY years! But the NCAA is deaf to any complaints.
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Post by gilles13 on Oct 26, 2011 22:49:05 GMT -5
You're kinda late but also correct...RPI is a hugely flawed system and there is disdain for it pretty much across the board on volleytalk. Sorry, I did look for a thread but didn't feel like going back much further than 2-3 pages. I figured there had been some discussion on this topic over the past few weeks; so I'm sure some of this is redundant. Lol it's all good, I'm sure there's other viewpoints on it as well.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 26, 2011 23:19:12 GMT -5
I mean shoot, USC who is a team that I have been behind as a top team all year, is at 10. They haven't lost since the 9th of September, and their 2 other losses came early in the season as well. I would easily place them at #4 instead of UNI. The Big 10 is by far the strongest conference in my mind so I understand why their teams are ranked so high, but I would be hard pressed to find another conference stronger than the Pac 12 from top to bottom. I could see Pac-12 #8 Oregon State, being in the top 3 of the ACC and SEC, with teams like Oregon, Arizona, and Washington being at the top of those conferences, yet they are being punished for having to play the likes of USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Cal among others. Only see about 4-5 teams outside of the Pac-12 that could get through the Top 8 in the Pac 12 without at least 4 losses (in just the 8 matches). The Big-10 being possibly perceived as stronger than the Pac-12 is another by-product of RPI. Granted they are the two best conferences & it's hard to argue against Ill/Neb asanything other than in the top 4 in the country, but there's good reason the put the Pac-12 above the Big-10 (ok maybe the bottom three of the Big-10 are above the Pac-12 bottom 3). The early season head-to-head illustrates that: USC/Oregon went 4-4 on a Big-10 PSU home court. Stanford went 2-0 and PSU 0-2 on a Pac-12 home court. Long Beach State beat Ohio State (middle Big-10) on a neutral court while losing 2 at home to Pac-12 upper/lower Pac-12 teams (Washington & Oregon State) and losing to a top Pac-12 on a neutral court. Not a lot of data, but the data that is there suggests the Pac-12 deserves as many bids and has as good of top 9 teams as the Big-10, with some legitimate debate as to which conference has the 'top' team or two in the country.
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Post by jayj79 on Oct 26, 2011 23:36:29 GMT -5
The RPI is biased towards the East Coast. and yet there is only one East Coast team in the top 10 (#9 Florida State). 7 of the 10 are west of the Mississippi, and the other two (Minnesota and Illinois) are pretty darn close to it (a few blocks, in the case of MN)
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Post by justbile on Oct 27, 2011 0:12:27 GMT -5
dawgsfan is not late in bringing this topic up because his real poster name AY had already addressed this issue. It's so easy to decipher AY and his multiple poster names. He says the same things with a slight twist. What's sad is he is so intent on being right that he has all these other posts (mind you all 100+) in different names to drive down his point. MY, my, what a sick puppy.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 27, 2011 0:28:13 GMT -5
The RPI is biased towards the East Coast. and yet there is only one East Coast team in the top 10 (#9 Florida State). 7 of the 10 are west of the Mississippi, and the other two (Minnesota and Illinois) are pretty darn close to it (a few blocks, in the case of MN) yes, it illustrates RPIism Cal & Wash didn't have 'eastern' pre-conf schedules - their RPI sucks. Stanford, Hawaii, USC had 'eastern' pre-conf schedules - their RPI is good Iowa State played 'east', same for Northern Iowa - in non-conf. that's why those teams are in the top 10. It highlights the bias even more and just how bad overall the East Coast ( the Big-10, MVC, & Big 12 feast on the East) is compared to the rest of the country.
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Post by smiley on Oct 27, 2011 0:51:22 GMT -5
and yet there is only one East Coast team in the top 10 (#9 Florida State). 7 of the 10 are west of the Mississippi, and the other two (Minnesota and Illinois) are pretty darn close to it (a few blocks, in the case of MN) yes, it illustrates RPIism Cal & Wash didn't have 'eastern' pre-conf schedules - their RPI sucks. Stanford, Hawaii, USC had 'eastern' pre-conf schedules - their RPI is good Iowa State played 'east', same for Northern Iowa - in non-conf. that's why those teams are in the top 10. It highlights the bias even more and just how bad overall the East Coast ( the Big-10, MVC, & Big 12 feast on the East) is compared to the rest of the country. You need to get out a map. The only thing "east" about those conferences is that they're east of your beloved West Coast. And while you're at it you might get a dictionary and look up "bias".
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Post by jets on Oct 27, 2011 1:15:00 GMT -5
yes
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Post by leftout on Oct 27, 2011 1:36:12 GMT -5
Often in the past I've seen the list of members in the NCAA seeding committee and wondered if they were really knowledgeable, competent to do a good job. Many of them are administrators in women's athletic programs that do not have competitive vb programs. The AVCA POLL is not perfect but at least we know the coaches are knowledgeable.
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