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Post by JB Southpaw on Oct 2, 2012 8:30:48 GMT -5
Being discussed at on the women's board, thought it pertained to the Men's game even more. Basically this change could make the float server relevant again. May take a while to get in to the NCAAs. this makes me happy. Here is the link to the FIVB presentation in Anaheim. www.klewel.com/conferences/fivb-congress-2012/day3/Slide 8 of 21 details the new proposal (Proposal 4) as: To destabilize the reception and prevent a series of 4 second side out points, and thus make the game less predictable, reception of service overhand with fingers will be judged more strictly. It cannot be either a double contact or a catch. Defensive actions during the rally will be unaffected. The proposed rule language: Rule 9.2.4 - It is a fault, during the reception of service, to make a double contact or catch using an overhand finger action. Read more:http://volleytalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=46069&page=2#ixzz289Egemj4
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Post by vballer1990 on Oct 3, 2012 12:44:43 GMT -5
its already in the works to be instituted in the NCAA for the men in the 2013-2014 season
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Post by Semp12 on Oct 3, 2012 14:45:35 GMT -5
The rule change will change the men's game so much more than the women's. You can take a group of semi-athletic HS boys and they can figure out how to hand pass relatively mediocre within a week. For them to figure out how to forearm pass at the same mediocre level.. months, maybe years.
Women take forearm passing to heart since most are starting at a younger age when they lack the strength to hand pass. Even in HS, many do not possess the strength and quickness to make hand-passing worthwhile.
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Post by Mac on Oct 3, 2012 15:04:44 GMT -5
Stop effing with rules and just play. I'm all for improvement but so many rule changes are not good.
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Post by vbc1 on Oct 4, 2012 7:23:38 GMT -5
Stop effing with rules and just play. I'm all for improvement but so many rule changes are not good. +1
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Post by volleyballhawk on Oct 4, 2012 8:33:12 GMT -5
This rule blows. BLOWS. Hello float servers.
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Post by justadad on Oct 4, 2012 9:13:03 GMT -5
This rule blows. BLOWS. Hello float servers. I guess this all depends on what you want for the game. If you want to continue seeing guys go back and bomb away at the service line missing a high percentage of their serves, even at the highest levels, then yep the rule stinks. If you want to see the ball get served into the court and maybe even some rallies, then the rule is a correction to a modification that had unforeseeable consequences on the flow of the overall game. To me the most interesting potential impact of this rule is that a higher emphasis will be placed on passing and serving accuracy. If I am a Libero, Outside, or Right I am stoked about this rule. There are going to be more balls that are not playable in the middle. Setters will need to adjust and Middles are going to get less chances due to passing limitations. Lastly, I think this enhances the opportunities for guys that are passers first (Liberos, DS, smaller outsides). The game becomes less of who can make their serves and hit .650 out of the middle, but instead who can pass and win rallies by staying in system to set up the high percentage plays. Should be interesting....
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Post by halesvb11 on Oct 4, 2012 10:02:55 GMT -5
I'm torn... I started playing in HS in 98 and they had just instituted all of the rule changes for JO's then. My state HS rules didn't change for many years. I went from sideout and forearm passing only to rally and being able to mangle serves in JO's, then back again. It was frustrating, but it took about a week to get used to the rules du jour. I agree with everyone that it will impact the men's game more than the women's. One long term concern I have is that this may take the super athletic guys who can just throw a ball to the setter out of the game, and that could hurt the US.
It will be interesting to see how this changes the game at the lower levels. I think to a certain extent the college guys (and above) are well versed enough that they'll be able to make the move to only forearm passing relatively easily. The quality of that passing is the question, imho.
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Post by phildunphy on Oct 4, 2012 14:54:04 GMT -5
I guess this all depends on what you want for the game. If you want to continue seeing guys go back and bomb away at the service line missing a high percentage of their serves, even at the highest levels, then yep the rule stinks. If you want to see the ball get served into the court and maybe even some rallies, then the rule is a correction to a modification that had unforeseeable consequences on the flow of the overall game. You will see pretty much zero difference on how teams serve, especially at the highest levels. People aren't bombing jump serves because passing floaters with "hands" is too easy. They also don't bomb the jumper because passing floaters in the men's game w/o hands is ALSO easy. They bomb jump serves because of how the game changed with RALLY SCORING. In the old S/O system, missing serves also meant you couldn't score points. Now with the punishment for a missed serve not being as severe in rally scoring...going for broke on your serve will still be the "correct" game strategy play for the mens game. As for bringing back the little OH into play, again...won't change the game much at all. Yes...you may not be able to get away with 2 total goons who can't pass at OH, but you will still easily have 1 bomber who doesn't have to pass anything but jumpers. Kiraly and Berzins showed that you can pass floaters with 2 guys 30 years ago. If they played now...one would not start because 2 passing OH's is overkill, since we have a libero.
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Post by volleyballhawk on Oct 4, 2012 15:21:45 GMT -5
I guess this all depends on what you want for the game. If you want to continue seeing guys go back and bomb away at the service line missing a high percentage of their serves, even at the highest levels, then yep the rule stinks. If you want to see the ball get served into the court and maybe even some rallies, then the rule is a correction to a modification that had unforeseeable consequences on the flow of the overall game. You will see pretty much zero difference on how teams serve, especially at the highest levels. People aren't bombing jump serves because passing floaters with "hands" is too easy. They also don't bomb the jumper because passing floaters in the men's game w/o hands is ALSO easy. They bomb jump serves because of how the game changed with RALLY SCORING. In the old S/O system, missing serves also meant you couldn't score points. Now with the punishment for a missed serve not being as severe in rally scoring...going for broke on your serve will still be the "correct" game strategy play for the mens game. As for bringing back the little OH into play, again...won't change the game much at all. Yes...you may not be able to get away with 2 total goons who can't pass at OH, but you will still easily have 1 bomber who doesn't have to pass anything but jumpers. Kiraly and Berzins showed that you can pass floaters with 2 guys 30 years ago. If they played now...one would not start because 2 passing OH's is overkill, since we have a libero. You're mental if you think this won't change how the men's game is played, if we're talking about the NCAA D1 game. Other than the guy or two who can absolutely bomb serves (like the guys you mentioned) coaches will have guys floating. What's tougher, a decent jump serve, or a float serve? If you can't pass it with your hands, it's a float serve. Unless the guy can absolutely kill a jump serve, I see most coaches having the guy hit a float. Just my take. Look at it this way...as a passer, I'd much rather pass a decent jump serve than a floater that's moving every which way.
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Post by phildunphy on Oct 4, 2012 15:52:39 GMT -5
You're mental if you think this won't change how the men's game is played Really? Let me ask you a question. Have you ever played the game when you couldn't pass with your hands? If you haven't...then no offense...you have no idea what you are talking about. I won't go so far as to name call like you did, but passing floaters w/o your hands isn't some mystical power that guys won't be able to handle. Again...30 years ago Kiraly and Berzins were passing 2.5+ on a 3 scale vs. floaters. Now with every team having a libero, you will only need 1 of your 3 pin hitters to be able to pass a floater...eh gads...w/o their hands! My point isn't that some guys/teams may indeed have a few more guys more skilled at the art of float serving now. My point is the GAME now in the RALLY SCORING ERA will still revolve around your ability to score points off your serve. The game is not going to suddenly turn into 6 guys serving floaters all game because the floater is an evil devil of a tool that will wreak havoc on passers worldwide!!!
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Post by planetasia01 on Oct 4, 2012 16:19:31 GMT -5
I wonder how the new balls will factor into this. Last time the old rules were in effect we were still playing with Tachikaras and similar white old school balls right? The new balls are alot harder to pass, especially the Mikasa FIVB standard.
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Post by justadad on Oct 4, 2012 17:46:04 GMT -5
Phildunphy,
I am going to disagree with your statement, "People aren't bombing jump serves because passing floaters with "hands" is too easy". If that were the case why are guys standing at 12' on the court to receive the floater? It is clearly because the receiving team knows that they can attack the floater with their hands and not get called for a lift.
As a result of the new rule, court spacing will be deeper and players will need to pass with their arms, the smaller of the two platforms. This is more difficult on a quality jumper that is slicing away/into the player and a decent float. As someone else stated, the average jump is too straight and falls nicely along the up/down orientation of the forearm passing platform. I cannot see a college/pro coach continuing to tolerate the high number of missed serves from the average server when an average float server can cause just as much havoc. Of course, the serving stud is going to still be given the green light.
In the day, yes I was around then, waiting on a good floaty to get down to those arms was nerve racking. That ball moves in what seems to be every direction while you are waiting.....
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Post by phildunphy on Oct 4, 2012 18:10:55 GMT -5
Phildunphy, I am going to disagree with your statement, "People aren't bombing jump serves because passing floaters with "hands" is too easy". If that were the case why are guys standing at 12' on the court to receive the floater? It is clearly because the receiving team knows that they can attack the floater with their hands and not get called for a lift. Guys are standing at 12' because they can use their hands...obv. When they can no longer use their hands, they will move back closer to 20'...and still pass that ball at a 2.3+. As a result of the new rule, court spacing will be deeper and players will need to pass with their arms, the smaller of the two platforms. Maybe I am misunderstanding this, but...your arms are smaller than your hands? This is more difficult on a quality jumper that is slicing away/into the player and a decent float. As someone else stated, the average jump is too straight and falls nicely along the up/down orientation of the forearm passing platform. I cannot see a college/pro coach continuing to tolerate the high number of missed serves from the average server when an average float server can cause just as much havoc. Of course, the serving stud is going to still be given the green light. Again...I still don't think you understand WHY the college/pro coach is jump serving. Now...I am not saying an "average" jump server is not going to perhaps be better served as float server now. I am saying that if a high level coach has his choice of a "good" jump server and a "great" floater...go ahead an bet on the "good" jumper. In the day, yes I was around then, waiting on a good floaty to get down to those arms was nerve racking. That ball moves in what seems to be every direction while you are waiting... If you wait for the ball to play you...maybe you were doing it wrong! If you guys wanna disagree that's fine. I am not saying this won't impact the game, but if you think the game will look like 1984 again with everyone popping over floaters because it's hard to pass those things...
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Post by future on Oct 4, 2012 20:38:48 GMT -5
From a personal standpoint I LOVE THE RULE CHANGE. This is how I made a living. I have never been great at teaching passing a ball overhead admittedly and pretty much forced all my players and children learn to be really good passing with their forearms. Next up ? Attack the serve then block the serve.......then sideout?
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