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Post by Greenie on Nov 29, 2005 13:03:06 GMT -5
As long as USC has never been in troubles with Debora Seilhamer’s eligibility (at least I haven’t heard) they may know how to handle those ‘touchy’ situations What did I miss on Seilhamer?
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Post by bigfan on Nov 29, 2005 13:13:49 GMT -5
As long as USC has never been in troubles with Debora Seilhamer’s eligibility (at least I haven’t heard) they may know how to handle those ‘touchy’ situations The NCAA checks everything out; this is all above board.
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Post by foreignball on Nov 29, 2005 13:19:54 GMT -5
May be the fact she was starting for Leonas de Ponce (sp) back in 2002….as far as I know PR’n league is professional but I could be wrong…..
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Post by bigfan on Nov 29, 2005 13:23:59 GMT -5
May be the fact she was starting for Leonas de Ponce (sp) back in 2002….as far as I know PR’n league is professional but I could be wrong….. The Polish league and the PR league both have professional players competing. I do not understand the NCAA rules.....but players can compete in both.
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Post by Greenie on Nov 29, 2005 13:30:07 GMT -5
I think it has to do with at what level... like the "Super League" in Brazil is supposed to be a no-no, but the NCAA has not enforced even that.
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Post by greenday on Nov 29, 2005 14:00:22 GMT -5
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Post by Gorf on Nov 29, 2005 14:08:43 GMT -5
May be the fact she was starting for Leonas de Ponce (sp) back in 2002….as far as I know PR’n league is professional but I could be wrong….. The Polish league and the PR league both have professional players competing. I do not understand the NCAA rules.....but players can compete in both. How can you say you don't understand the NCAA rules but say you know that USC followed the rules that you don't understand?
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Post by Gorf on Nov 29, 2005 14:09:44 GMT -5
I think it has to do with at what level... like the "Super League" in Brazil is supposed to be a no-no, but the NCAA has not enforced even that. So professional is only professional if the NCAA says its professional not just when a player accepts money to play for a team?
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Post by caljr on Nov 29, 2005 14:23:26 GMT -5
I have a former teammate who plays professionally in Europe. He says that everybody is getting money if they are playing on a professional team. Might not be able to track it, but they are getting money.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2005 14:25:25 GMT -5
Why'd the Polish volleyball players go to USC?
The mike is open...
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Post by BearClause on Nov 29, 2005 14:42:19 GMT -5
12.02 DEFINITIONS AND APPLICATIONS
12.02.3 Professional Athlete. A professional athlete is one who receives any kind of payment, directly or indirectly, for athletics participation except as permitted by the governing legislation of the Association.
12.02.4 Professional Athletics Team. A professional team is any organized team that:
(a) Provides any of its players more than actual and necessary expenses for participation on the team, except as otherwise permitted by NCAA legislation. Actual and necessary expenses are limited to the following, provided the value of these items is commensurate with the fair market value in the locality of the player(s) and is not excessive in nature: (Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/02)
(1) Meals directly tied to competition and practice held in preparation for such competition;
(2) Lodging directly tied to competition and practice held in preparation for such competition;
(3) Apparel, equipment and supplies;
(4) Coaching and instruction;
(5) Health/medical insurance;
(6) Transportation (i.e., expenses to and from practice and competition, cost of transportation from home to training/practice site at the beginning of the season and from training/practice site to home at the end of season);
(7) Medical treatment and physical therapy;
(8) Facility usage; (Revised: 4/24/03)
(9) Entry fees; and (Revised: 4/24/03)
(10) Other reasonable expenses; or (Adopted 4/24/03; Revised: 10/28/04)
(b) Declares itself to be professional (see Bylaw 12.1.1.4.1.1). (Revised: 8/8/02)
12.1.1 Amateur Status. An individual loses amateur status and thus shall not be eligible for intercollegiate competition in a particular sport if the individual:
(e) Competes on any professional athletics team per Bylaw 12.02.4, even if no pay or remuneration for expenses was received; (Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/02)
I think the NCAA used to make distinctions between different leagues and the "level" of play. The term I heard was "first tier league". It sounds as if all those distinctions have been thrown out, and if your team has ANY paid players you're out of luck with the NCAA in that sport. I also took a quick look at the 2001-2 D-I manual. It appears to have less.
I really couldn't find any specifics on restoration of eligibility in any manual. It only states that there will be a committee to handle such requests. I believe the rules on reinstatement are decided by this committee, and have changed over time. Last year, I read some eligibility guidebook from the NCAA that said that the rules has specifically changed such that "professional athletes" would not be able to appeal to regain eligibility in their sport after the 2001-2 season.
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Post by Gorf on Nov 29, 2005 14:50:04 GMT -5
The rules are very clear. You can play in a professional league, you can receive actual and necessary expenses (just like a college scholarship....housing, meals etc) and you can play in a league with pro's. The KEY difference is that you can't have any pro players (those that receive a salary) on your team....however, you can play against as many professional teams as you like. You can play in a pro league without playing on a pro team... if that makes sense. Remember that even though the USA calls them pro leagues.... it doesn't mean that all teams (or players for that matter) are pros. This is very common in the German, Swiss, Polish, French, and other less prominent leagues. Now if they played in the A1 division of Italy or the top league in Brazil... then I would raise my eyebrows. Have they only played in Poland? If so, it's quite possible that they are not pros by the NCAA definition. I can't believe that College of Southern Idaho would have pros on their team...it would jeopardize their championship. The NCAA and Juco rules are the same when it comes to pros....just not age limits. How old are these players? Read BearClause's copied rules and you will see that your clear undertanding isn't the same thing as what the current rules state. As for UCI, they are an NJCAA (junior college) team and perhaps that institutions rules are somewhat different than those of the NCAA. Not that the NCAA sees to always follow its own rules for all teams anyhow.
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Post by BearClause on Nov 29, 2005 15:05:47 GMT -5
Read BearClause's copied rules and you will see that your clear undertanding isn't the same thing as what the current rules state. The NCAA doesn't seem to care about professional **leagues** any more, just whether one plays for a professional **team**. It might be possible that these Polish teams don't meet the NCAA's definition of a "professional team". Or they might. I think what tripped up Costas Theochardis was the sudden appearance of a blank contract form for the team he played on. It apparently made it clear that players on the team could be paid for services rendered. Playing **against** "professional teams" is done all the time. College basketball teams have preseason exhibitions against paid "all star" teams or even the Harlem Globetrotters.
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Post by beachman on Nov 29, 2005 15:55:53 GMT -5
I can see how allowing Polish people to roam the USC campus can be so offensive. Yes. You know what you call a Polish Volleyball Player who signs to play with U$C???
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Post by Greenie on Nov 29, 2005 16:22:56 GMT -5
The rules are very clear. You can play in a professional league, you can receive actual and necessary expenses (just like a college scholarship....housing, meals etc) and you can play in a league with pro's. Do those years count against your eligibility? Paying on a club team at a university, or even on a USAV team, counts as a year of eligibility.
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