Big Worst Conference

[bigworst]

Amazing what a couple of years does to a conference.

Long Beach State from national title match to national laughingstock.

UC Santa Barbara from top 25 rankings to lucky to make the NCAA this year

Pacific appears to be on the rebound, but still have a long way to go

Cal Poly, Irvine, and CSUN have been performing about as normal as can be expected, it is just that the big three have fallen from grace.

So, what happened? Why did this conference formally having several national title contenders each year dip to no-ranked teams?

[ugopher]

Being a relative newbie to the game and volleyball community, did the "decline" of the conference coincide with the emergence of volleyball programs in the Big 10, Big 12, etc?

If so, more talent is leaving the West Coast for bigger schools/programs.

If not, I don't know.

[Keystonekid]

Ugopher is right. Not only more talent leaving west, top players from the east and midwest aren't going west, particularly to tier 2 west coast programs. Those programs could be consistent top 25 teams without working that hard.

[Deleted]

There were only two programs making noise: Pacific and Long Beach. UCSB was close, but they only made it to one Elite Eight, right?

Dunning left Pacific for the Pac10. Perhaps that was as damaging to the league as it was to Pacific. I don't know what happened at Long Beach, although they are far from a laughingstock. UCSB, as well as Pacific and the Beach, were beset with transfers. Why? I dunno.

Add it all up and the league just isn't perceived as a title threat anymore. That, in turn, is going to have an effect on recruits.

It's too bad. The sport needs more conferences competing with the Big 3. The SEC appears to be that conference now. Maybe the West Coast, too?

[TheSantaBarbarian]

"There were only two programs making noise: Pacific and Long Beach. UCSB was close, but they only made it to one Elite Eight, right?"

Actually, over the past 10 years, 5 16's with 3 8's.

[Deleted]

OK, I take it back then. UCSB was also making noise. I only remembered the Regional against Hawaii.

And I don't hold no final 4s against teams, like some people do. Three EEs is good enough for me.

[Sounds like bad English, but it's what I meant. I don't hold the failure to make a final 4...]

[Deleted]

By the way, my major point is: It's all Dunning's fault.

BASTA!

[bunnywailer]

The simplest explanation is that the entire landscape of women's collegiate volleyball has changed.

In its heydey (beginning with the mid-80's National Championship runs by UOP, Hawaii, and LBSU), the coaches of the most successful programs (Liskeyvich/Dunning at UOP, Shoji at UH, Gimmillaro at LBSU) used a formula of finding the best athletes and then training the hell out of them to make them exceptional volleyball players. Keep in mind, the JO/club scene was nowhere near as developed as it is today.

However, the shift in the entire women's college game has been towards identifying and recruiting top talent that are ready to go the moment they step into your program. In the early-to-mid 90's you had the dominant programs (Stanford, LBSU, Penn State) centered around exceptional athletes that already had extensive volleyball skills and experience before they entered college - Cary Wendell/Kristin Folkl/Lisa Sharpley/Kerri Walsh at Stanford, Misty May at LBSU, Bonnie Bremner at Penn State.

In the past 10 years, the dominant runs by USC and Nebraska (and to a lesser extent Stanford and Washington) have all been fueled by their recruiting efforts years earlier. Haley used his influence as national team coach to recruit from that pipeline when he took over at USC. Cook has gone out and secured a ton of blue-chippers in the past 5 years. Stanford continues to be the top choice for blue-chip recruits from the West who also happen to be top-tier students.

The Big West programs and coaches cannot compete anymore in the recruiting wars. So, they have to make do with what they have. They may occasionally luck upon a phenomenal recruit that enters their program, but to consistently compete with the Stanfords, Nebraskas, etc. is no longer possible. These schools have an entire starting lineup of blue-chippers.

[Deleted]

Why is it no longer possible, assuming your theory is true (and it sounds good)? Why can't the Big West recruit those blue chippers? Just not Brian or Kathy's forte?

[georgia(pacific)girl]

ruffda said:

By the way, my major point is: It's all Dunning's fault.

BASTA!

Actually, before Dunning left Pacific started losing team members. Sara Westling left to go back to Nebraska, MaryLauren Smith left to go to Missouri. BUT it's okay with me to blame him anyway...

[bunnywailer]

ruffda said:

Why is it no longer possible, assuming your theory is true (and it sounds good)? Why can't the Big West recruit those blue chippers? Just not Brian or Kathy's forte?

Big West schools just don't have the resources or budget to match schools in the Pac-10 or Big 12. Recruiting is an intricate dance. Also, the quality of the schools themselves comes into play. This particular subject has been broached many times on VT so I won't get into details again.

Finally, coaching takes energy. It's rare that any coach that's been in the business as long as Gimmillaro/Gregory/Shoji, and at the same school, can consistently keep themselves legitimately poised in the Top 3-5 in the country year in and year out. You have to continously nuture and grow your program - if you're lucky (like Shoji was when he had Wade), you have a high-energy associate or first assistant that steps into that role.

Gimmillaro had huge influence in the SoCal volleyball scene when Cal Jrs. was the premiere club in the LA area. However, as his proteges have branched out themselves and created powerful clubs in the same zip code, his influence in the JO scene and ability to utilize that to leverage in the recruiting dance has also been lessened.

[Gelatinous Mass]

I blame it on Brian G's hair...it's just not right

[TheSantaBarbarian]

"Big West schools just don't have the resources or budget to match schools in the Pac-10 or Big 12. Recruiting is an intricate dance. Also, the quality of the schools themselves comes into play. This particular subject has been broached many times on VT so I won't get into details again."

^^

1.) Assistant Coaches. UCSB pays them next to nothing. No one is going to stay any length of time in as high cost of living area as Santa Barbara with that kind of pay.

2.) Recruiting. It costs at least 2 scholies for an out of state/country player. For every "out of" we recruit, we lose a recruit.

3.) Very low travel budget.

4.) Very low recruiting budget.

At UCSB it is not enough to have a beautiful campus and great academics any more. We just can't put on the dog and pony show the BCS schools can. Also, we have a tiny AD staff. The players work without a net. There is no, "Well just go take Underwater Basket weaving 101 like the football players do." There is no one to run around to pick up after them. We saw this especially in our women's hoops program in the last few years where we started recruiting more high profile players from high schools that had perhaps less strong college prep. We lost almost everyone by the end of their sophomore year. They weren't ready to compete academically with little support. In a BCS school with a large support section in the AD, the same players might have made it.

Oh, if we are now the Big Worst, I guess that makes the WAC the Worst Athletic Conference? They are way behind the Big West in the Pablo rankings.

[IdahoBoy]

thesantabarbarian said:

Oh, if we are now the Big Worst, I guess that makes the WAC the Worst Athletic Conference? They are way behind the Big West in the Pablo rankings.

How does the WAC fall into play here? At least the WAC has been consistently rated over the past 6 years.

[bunnywailer]

thesantabarbarian said:

"Big West schools just don't have the resources or budget to match schools in the Pac-10 or Big 12. Recruiting is an intricate dance. Also, the quality of the schools themselves comes into play. This particular subject has been broached many times on VT so I won't get into details again."

^^

1.) Assistant Coaches. UCSB pays them next to nothing. No one is going to stay any length of time in as high cost of living area as Santa Barbara with that kind of pay.

2.) Recruiting. It costs at least 2 scholies for an out of state/country player. For every "out of" we recruit, we lose a recruit.

3.) Very low travel budget.

4.) Very low recruiting budget.

At UCSB it is not enough to have a beautiful campus and great academics any more. We just can't put on the dog and pony show the BCS schools can. Also, we have a tiny AD staff. The players work without a net. There is no, "Well just go take Underwater Basket weaving 101 like the football players do." There is no one to run around to pick up after them. We saw this especially in our women's hoops program in the last few years where we started recruiting more high profile players from high schools that had perhaps less strong college prep. We lost almost everyone by the end of their sophomore year. They weren't ready to compete academically with little support. In a BCS school with a large support section in the AD, the same players might have made it.

Oh, if we are now the Big Worst, I guess that makes the WAC the Worst Athletic Conference? They are way behind the Big West in the Pablo rankings.

WAAAAAH. Cry me a river.

Biggest thing holding back UCSB athletics IS UCSB athletics. Small time thinking and inertia and the whole "laid, back, we in Goleta so we wear flip flops all the time and say stuff like 'groovy' when we coach" mentality.

To her credit, Kathy Gregory has always been a dedicated and professional coach. She rants and raves, but she also goes out of her way to promote her program and women's volleyball in general. Too bad the athletic department she works for is pure crap.