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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2004 22:41:43 GMT -5
Again, none of those things were the reason why we invaded Iraq.
And Bush is a Christian like I am a tuna salad. The man is a zealot taking orders from... you tell me.
He scares the bejeebers out of me. Dumb and delusional. Just the sort of person you want in power.
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Post by Gorf on Apr 23, 2004 0:31:06 GMT -5
how about simply getting a tyrant out of power. How about just doing the right thing, helping the people of Iraq. How about the simple underestimated way of life called freedom. Being able to worship who you want without being shot. How about being a female and being able to attend school. Being able to learn to read and write. ok call me a romantic, but how about a realist. I'm sitting here often looking over what kind of scholarships are available for my daughter and she is still 5 years away from college. But by God, she has the freedom to go to college if she wants to. She has the freedom to speak her mind, learn more than a man if she wants. Call me whatever you want, but that is reason enough to take Saddam out of power. I know about 50 guys who are over there right now and everyone of them are very proud to be there. Even with the violence now, They say the television shows the outcry, but these are the same people who also are glad that even if their "churches" are being bombed, at least they have the freedom now to worship in their own way. Do we have a vested interest....oh I'm sure we do....there is a lot of oil over there.....but why is it so hard to see that this man was a bully in the worst way and needed to be stopped. Oh, and you've made several comments about Bush being God's man.....hmmmm.....so. Does this offend you, the fact that we have a president that prays, so did Clinton, or at least he says he did.....so you don't like the fact that Bush is a christian.....well guess what...thank GOD that you live in America because if this was Iraq and Bush was Saddam, you'd be bending your knee and praying often or you'd lose your head....once again, freedom. It's a beautiful thing when you completely understand it. I don't believe I have personally made any reference to Bush's religious beliefs, be they Christian or otherwise. I have called him a liar, and a blatant one at that and will stick with that opinion based on the evidence that I've seen. Bringing down Hussein was a good thing to have happene as a result of the invasion. That doesn't mean any of the stated reasons for invading Iraq were good reasons - especially since those stated reasons have pretty much all proven to be false. Hussein is gone, now our government wants to force feed the them democracy. If you're truly advocating freedom for the people of Iraq they ought to have the freedom to decide the form of government they desire.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 23, 2004 4:45:13 GMT -5
(R)uffda, Gorf, my friends.............. I apologize for being an ass. I guess I was having too much fun. I'm sure you two can debate politics in a rational manner, I'll work on it.
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Post by Noname on Apr 23, 2004 7:18:44 GMT -5
thank GOD that you live in America because if this was Iraq and Bush was Saddam, you'd be bending your knee and praying often or you'd lose your head....once again, freedom. It's a beautiful thing when you completely understand it. This reminds me of something that had happened here in Hawaii, long before Hawaii became a state. Missionaries carrying their Bibles came to the Hawaiian islands, and outlawed quite a few things in the Hawaiian culture calling those acts as sinful. Dancing Hula was one of them. The Hawaiians were basically forced to worship the Missionaries' Deity and told that their (Hawaiians) Deities were false. The Hawaiians that chose to continue to practice their own beliefs such as dancing Hula, which was outlawed, were imprisoned. At that time, where was the Hawaiians' "freedom", you know, the "beautiful thing"?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2004 7:30:41 GMT -5
(R)uffda, Gorf, my friends.............. I apologize for being an ass. I guess I was having too much fun. I'm sure you two can debate politics in a rational manner, I'll work on it. I know you're having fun, BiK. Absolutely no need to apologize. For the record, for anyone who's come to the wrong conclusion (perhaps understandably so), I LIKE BiK. I always have. We all have our faults. BiK's happens to be his politics. ;D
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Post by Hadrian on Apr 23, 2004 10:04:48 GMT -5
This reminds me of something that had happened here in Hawaii, long before Hawaii became a state. Missionaries carrying their Bibles came to the Hawaiian islands, and outlawed quite a few things in the Hawaiian culture calling those acts as sinful. Dancing Hula was one of them. The Hawaiians were basically forced to worship the Missionaries' Deity and told that their (Hawaiians) Deities were false. The Hawaiians that chose to continue to practice their own beliefs such as dancing Hula, which was outlawed, were imprisoned. At that time, where was the Hawaiians' "freedom", you know, the "beautiful thing"? This sort of arrogant behavior by Missionaries and Invaders always makes me sad. It's pure arrogance and delusions of grandeur. The locals (whether Hawaiians, Mayans, aborigines, Native Americans, etc.) can't (and usually didn't) do anything about them because they knew they didn't have a comparable military force like that of the Invaders. And who wants to be crushed in massive numbers? Church people are the worst. Always judging judging judging! Gosh, I love them so. I used to think of ways to hack their heads off whenever one of those lice showed up at my doorstep. They would be my only targeted victims if I ever decided to be a serial killer.
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Post by Hadrian on Apr 23, 2004 10:17:08 GMT -5
(R)uffda, Gorf, my friends.............. I apologize for being an ass. I guess I was having too much fun. I'm sure you two can debate politics in a rational manner, I'll work on it. Well, this certainly makes me sick.
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Post by Gorf on Apr 23, 2004 11:28:00 GMT -5
Well, this certainly makes me sick. We're always glad to be of service.
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Post by Gorf on Apr 23, 2004 11:31:14 GMT -5
(R)uffda, Gorf, my friends.............. I apologize for being an ass. I guess I was having too much fun. I'm sure you two can debate politics in a rational manner, I'll work on it. Rational? What room for rationality do we have in passionate heated political "debates"?
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 23, 2004 13:26:12 GMT -5
I think we all need a good laugh again. Mind you, I like the president but this is funny I would have laughed harder if it was Kerry falling off of the segway.
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Post by benwhipdrofn on Apr 23, 2004 15:56:18 GMT -5
when I said freedom is a beautiful thing...it includes such things like freedom of speech even when it's having to listen to what you don't want to because the other person has the right.
You are right about those were not the reasons that were used to free Iraq, but I can't figure out why we gave Saddam the chance to hide anything. I'm sorry, but if I knew that I was going to be invaded and I knew what they were looking for and I knew that if I kep it where it was they'd find it, I'd hide it so well or pay whoever would be willing to hide it for me as much as I could. That's like telling high school kids, we are bringing in the drug smelling dogs on Monday, April 26 to search for drugs. AND of, we won't be in the hall ways seeing who is cleaning their lockers either, but we're going to find those joints.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2004 18:00:51 GMT -5
Seriously, don't you think he would have USED the WMD if he had them?
I just don't think we should invade other countries and THEN try to justify it. If you're going to do it, best to have the reasons down pat BEFORE we invade.
And the fact is the reason they invaded, we now find out, is because they wanted to set up Iraq as a model to the rest of the Arab world. Well, I have problems with that: 1) they should have told everyone that was the reason; 2) what gives us that right?; 3) they should have had a better idea about the consequences of such an invasion; and 4) they should not have gone to the U.N. to make a case for an invasion for TOTALLY different justifications.
Plain and simple, Bush is in over his head with bad, bad people (Dick Cheney foremost).
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Post by Hadrian on Apr 23, 2004 18:54:35 GMT -5
I've been trying to stay out of the political discussions because they're a little dangerous. You know, never discuss sex, religion, and politics on dates...
Be that as it may, assuming arguendo that Hussein had the WMD, he's not going to use it. Hussein may be mad and over-protective of his empire, but hey, what dictator isn't? But he is also bright and no bright guy is going to use WMDs or press that red "blow up the world" button. What's the point of blowing up the world if he has to live in it? Huh? What?
They are just for bargaining and negotiations. Like Kim Jong-Il of North Korea. Kim doesn't intend to use his arsenal of weapons against anyone. He's using it as a negotiating ploy so that he can get something in return for him and his country, like food, money, some American films (he fancies our flicks, esp. the James Bond ones and anything with blondes and sexy beasts) and more money to preserve his power.
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Post by Gorf on Apr 24, 2004 2:52:48 GMT -5
Be that as it may, assuming arguendo that Hussein had the WMD, he's not going to use it. Hussein may be mad and over-protective of his empire, but hey, what dictator isn't? But he is also bright and no bright guy is going to use WMDs or press that red "blow up the world" button. What's the point of blowing up the world if he has to live in it? Huh? What? Excuse me, but didn't Hussein already use his chemical warfare WMD's to take out large numbers of people in his own country a number of years ago? If he's insane (or evil, etc) enough to use them on his own people do you seriously think he would have any adverse thoughts about using them on someone invading his country if he had them available to use?
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Post by Hadrian on Apr 24, 2004 10:21:02 GMT -5
>-(Gorf)-<[} link=board=news&thread=1081437705&start=43#2 date=1082793168] Excuse me, but didn't Hussein already use his chemical warfare WMD's to take out large numbers of people in his own country a number of years ago? If he's insane (or evil, etc) enough to use them on his own people do you seriously think he would have any adverse thoughts about using them on someone invading his country if he had them available to use? Excuse me, but it's the other way around. Power figures are more likely to test/use WMDs on their own people than others. Less scrutiny by world policing agents. People are more likely to abuse their own children than their neighbors'. People are more likely to kick their own dogs than their neighbors'.
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