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Post by Murina on Aug 22, 2008 11:45:03 GMT -5
This is a spectacular Olympics for American volleyball! USAV has accomplished it's mission against some significant odds. Congratulations to the entire organization!
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Post by VolleyTX on Aug 22, 2008 12:10:58 GMT -5
I also hope it inspires all the young, promising volleyball players (A. Glass, Faucette, Fawcet, Hooker, Hodge, etc) to continue in the sport. Too often the best and brightest walk away after college. Some give it a try, but aren't patient with their development.
Look what has become of Kim Glass. Sure she had injury problems in college, but she was mostly potential with a little substance. She is quickly turning into a star. If she sticks with the sport and stays healthy, she should be our go to girl in 2012.
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Post by OverAndUnder on Aug 22, 2008 12:51:27 GMT -5
Over says "but USA is not the best volleyball nation in the world -- probably not even in the top 10." What? ?? You just literally said that our teams are the best in the world but, we are not the best volleyball nation in the world? Maybe we are measuring it differently but, the Olympics is the pinnacle of our sport and we are playing for the gold medal in every event our sport has to offer, with two golds already won. USA Volleyball is the best in the world period. Slow down. From your posting history I know you are intelligent enough to get what I am saying. I am agreeing with you in the sense that you mean "the best", then I am putting forth for discussion another sense of the status of "the best", and making a statement about it. As I stated in my previous post, in this other sense I am not referring to results in competitions. Our results so far put us clearly as the best Olympic volleyball competitor in the world. (Unless of course Brazil wins two indoor Gold Medals. Then it becomes debatable again don't you think?) In this other sense -- social recognition, depth of playing opportunities, comprehensive media coverage, upper limit on talent level, earning potential -- we are far behind Brazil, Italy, Russia, China, Serbia, etc.
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Post by USAFAN on Aug 22, 2008 14:03:54 GMT -5
Over says "but USA is not the best volleyball nation in the world -- probably not even in the top 10." What? ?? You just literally said that our teams are the best in the world but, we are not the best volleyball nation in the world? Maybe we are measuring it differently but, the Olympics is the pinnacle of our sport and we are playing for the gold medal in every event our sport has to offer, with two golds already won. USA Volleyball is the best in the world period. Slow down. From your posting history I know you are intelligent enough to get what I am saying. I am agreeing with you in the sense that you mean "the best", then I am putting forth for discussion another sense of the status of "the best", and making a statement about it. As I stated in my previous post, in this other sense I am not referring to results in competitions. Our results so far this put us clearly as the best Olympic volleyball competitor in the world. (Unless of course Brazil wins two indoor Gold Medals. Then it becomes debatable again don't you think?) In this other sense -- social recognition, depth of playing opportunities, comprehensive media coverage, upper limit on talent level, earning potential -- we are far behind Brazil, Italy, Russia, China, Serbia, etc. Once again I am not quite sure why you seem to think the USA doesn't have adequate talent level. Almost all the players on both the men's and women's team play professionally for some of the top teams in some of the top leagues around the world. Make no doubt about it, the USA players are no slouch internationally.
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Post by Keystonekid on Aug 22, 2008 14:34:13 GMT -5
I totally agree with you, and China, Japan, Russia, Brazil are ahead but do you really think we wouldn't even be top 10? This showing will be a waste of criminal proportions, if USA VB doesn't capitalize on the marketing, growth opportunities. To be honest, I think USA Volleyball has had an amazing level of success in the past week, in spite of themselves.
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Post by Ye Olde Dawg on Aug 22, 2008 15:32:34 GMT -5
Indoor volleyball is a reasonably successful professional sport in a number of countries -- certainly more than 10 -- but not in the U.S. We do have a thriving beach game; the best players from some countries come here to develop their beach game, but for the indoor game it's the reverse. Once a player reaches a certain level, they have to go abroad not just to make a living but to find a competitive environment where they can develop their game. They have to leave the U.S. to flourish.
When O&U talks about playing opportunities, earning potential, and a "limit" on talent, this is what I think of.
As for ranking, I think we need to split "volleyball" into two parts. The U.S. is probably #1 for beach volleyball by a number of measures. Indoors, in all the ways you measure support we'd have to rank fairly low. The fact that we can assemble national teams that have the kind of success we've seen this year is remarkable.
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Post by pogoball on Aug 22, 2008 15:45:05 GMT -5
If Brazil wins both the next matches, they would have two 1sts, one 2nd, one 3rd, one 4th and one 5th. We would have two 1sts, two 2nds and two 5ths.
Their total=16, our total=16. We would have a very slight edge in the medals with an extra silver to their bronze. They might get a little extra credit with the Geor/Gia team. I would call it a tie if Brazil wins out.
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Post by bigfan on Aug 22, 2008 15:49:12 GMT -5
Who would've thunk it? This is big for USA volleyball!!! Yes, who would have thunk? I cannot believe it either.........maybe they would get a bronze..........but playing for the GOLD?
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Post by cardfan15 on Aug 22, 2008 16:00:18 GMT -5
I think this is one of the more interesting discussions going on right now. One has to remember that our indoor teams for this Olympics are very heavy on the veteran side, which combined with great coaching on both teams, has allowed our men and women such success under tremendous pressure. As much as we'd like to paint a picture of the USA (a country where volleyball isn't popular, no pro league, not so great developmental system) having success against all odds, let's remember that Ah Mow-Santos, Tom, Scott-Arruda, Bown, Haneef-Park, Ball, Priddy, Millar, Salmon, Lee and Lambourne have extensive experience playing professionally abroad and form the core of both of our teams.
So, what we have then, is USAV's ability to field great teams for this Olympics because of great timing and great coaching. On the women's side, if Lang Ping doesn't come back we are looking at an entirely NEW team. If USAV cannot capitalize by lobbying the USOC for more press space and advertisements, after such a phenomenal performance by our volleyball teams, then they all deserve to be fired. As a fan of volleyball in general and USA volleyball in particular, I couldn't be more proud of our veterans and young players. However, that doesn't blind me to the fact that after this Olympics there is going to be A LOT of work to do considering the amount of retirements we have in front of us.
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Post by Vball818 on Aug 22, 2008 16:20:04 GMT -5
A lot of talk has centered around the foreign volleyball players that grace the college ranks. But homegrown USA talent has done REALLY well these olympics games. The Americans already took both mens and womens beach volleyball, and both mens and women's indoor teams are playing for golds. Has the US volleyball field ever been this deep in all events? GO USA!.....The Chinese can have their weightlifting and synchronized diving gold medals.... we'll take the volleyball championships ANYDAY! It is okay to have some jingoism in here. I have no problem with that, but according to the Chinese they're more than happy with the gold medals they've won in this Olympics - they succeeded in achieving their goals. Isn't the bulk of their golds in gymanstics and diving? Anyway... hats off to USAV and to all of the volleyball teams even to the ones that didn't win a medal. Proud of y'all! -I just thought of something and maybe this has been discussed already in here...who would've thought that 24 years later that Sue Woodstra and Jenny Lang Ping played against each other in the finals of the '84 Olympics in Los Angeles(a match I watched)would coach together for the U.S. women's team?
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Post by OverAndUnder on Aug 22, 2008 18:51:09 GMT -5
Slow down. From your posting history I know you are intelligent enough to get what I am saying. I am agreeing with you in the sense that you mean "the best", then I am putting forth for discussion another sense of the status of "the best", and making a statement about it. As I stated in my previous post, in this other sense I am not referring to results in competitions. Our results so far this put us clearly as the best Olympic volleyball competitor in the world. (Unless of course Brazil wins two indoor Gold Medals. Then it becomes debatable again don't you think?) In this other sense -- social recognition, depth of playing opportunities, comprehensive media coverage, upper limit on talent level, earning potential -- we are far behind Brazil, Italy, Russia, China, Serbia, etc. Once again I am not quite sure why you seem to think the USA doesn't have adequate talent level. Almost all the players on both the men's and women's team play professionally for some of the top teams in some of the top leagues around the world. Make no doubt about it, the USA players are no slouch internationally. In my opinion our talent pool is so great that if we had the development/training opportunities of other countries, we would finish in the top five in every international competition. As Ye Olde Dawg notes, I don't mean we have a limited number of upper level athletes, but rather that we have a huge upper limit on how far your talent will take you and how far you can take your talent in the US of A. Sykora lost the starting libero job because she stayed in her home country in the years following the 2004 Olympics. That is a unique problem among the perennial top volleyball countries. In 2012 we may find Serena Ortolani has become the best attacking OPP in the women's game -- all the training and development she receives in the next four years will occur without having to leave Italy.
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Post by ay2013 on Aug 22, 2008 19:40:10 GMT -5
A lot of talk has centered around the foreign volleyball players that grace the college ranks. But homegrown USA talent has done REALLY well these olympics games. The Americans already took both mens and womens beach volleyball, and both mens and women's indoor teams are playing for golds. Has the US volleyball field ever been this deep in all events? GO USA!.....The Chinese can have their weightlifting and synchronized diving gold medals.... we'll take the volleyball championships ANYDAY! It is okay to have some jingoism in here. I have no problem with that, but according to the Chinese they're more than happy with the gold medals they've won in this Olympics - they succeeded in achieving their goals. Isn't the bulk of their golds in gymanstics and diving?Anyway... hats off to USAV and to all of the volleyball teams even to the ones that didn't win a medal. Proud of y'all! -I just thought of something and maybe this has been discussed already in here...who would've thought that 24 years later that Sue Woodstra and Jenny Lang Ping played against each other in the finals of the '84 Olympics in Los Angeles(a match I watched)would coach together for the U.S. women's team? I'm not really sure where you went with this, but I hope it's a good thing But yes the Chinese have won 18 of their 47 golds (almost 40%) in sports where the "better athlete/performer" is entirely subjective because of human scoring. I'm still groggy about some of those gymnastics scores.... In regards to volleyball in USA, I agree that in terms of indoor volleyball, exposure is non existent at the pro-level. But this is due in LARGE part to the popularity of OTHER sports in America. Americans have a plethora of sports to occupy their time..... But my original post was about the depth/talent/and unity of the overall USA volleyball field. I feel as though all around both indoor and beach/mens women we are the strongest we've ever been, and we had the best field at the olympics.
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 22, 2008 19:49:58 GMT -5
]But yes the Chinese have won 18 of their 47 golds (almost 40%) in sports where the "better athlete/performer" is entirely subjective because of human scoring. Was that shot in or out? Was that a double? Did it go off the blocker or the net? Did that back row hitter take off infront of the line? Was that a lift? There are very few sports in which subjective human officiating decisions don't play important roles.
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Post by ay2013 on Aug 22, 2008 20:09:18 GMT -5
]But yes the Chinese have won 18 of their 47 golds (almost 40%) in sports where the "better athlete/performer" is entirely subjective because of human scoring. Was that shot in or out? Was that a double? Did it go off the blocker or the net? Did that back row hitter take off infront of the line? Was that a lift? There are very few sports in which subjective human officiating decisions don't play important roles. is that start value a 9.6 or a 9.5...did she hold on to that bar too long? 1/10th's deduction....was that a wobble or a skill?.... I don't think the divers looked "pretty" doing that.... Mike, there is a difference between sports that needs refs to make sure the rules of the game are followed like calling a ball out, and sports where the winner is chosen by people who aren't competing. People in in un-judged sports 95% of the time earn their wins by outperforming the competition fair and square. There was nothing subjective about USA blowing by Cuba in straight sets. The USA played well and the Cubans made errors. However, a lot of times in judged sports the better athletes does not win. Why? because "better athlete" varies from person to person. Look at 04 mens all around when Hamm won because the judges shafted that Japanese guy. In volleyball when a player serves the ball into the net it is a point to the other team, no ifs ands or buts about it. Fuse volleyball into a sport like synchronized diving, and the server could end up winning the point by serving into the net, depending on the degree of difficulty of course
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Post by pogoball on Aug 22, 2008 23:10:12 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not big on sports where champions are determine by a vote. You know, like college football
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