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Post by mnvbfan on Jan 22, 2009 9:24:21 GMT -5
My daughters play/ed for a club that believes the high school experience is important. They make accomodations for the kids who wish to play another sport. The club has only been in existence for 6 years and is experiencing a good amount of success and would be considered an elite club. As for personal experience, oldest daughter played HS BB all the way through and played D-1 VB. It was a struggle not from the VB coaches aspect but the HS BB coach. The cross training was actually really good for her and she simply requested to not do the lifting workouts on days she had VB since she did that when she came to club practice. Youngest daughter played buckets through sophomore year in High School and also ran track. We sat down at the beginning of the year with the HS coach (new coach) and layed out the practice schedule to see if he was ok with a few conflicts. We requested that she miss one non-conference game for a qualifier and asked that she not have to do the lifting workouts on day's she had VB. He was fine with it all until season started and then did everything to make her feel bad for deciding on VB as her favored sport. He coached the love of the game right out of her which was too bad becuase she was fun to watch. Our experience has been that the HS coaches are the ones that are not interested in flexibility. Youngest daughter experienced the same thing in Track. Coach wanted to make her a 400 runner and she talked to him before the season and said that there is no way she could do that workout and still jump! He said he couldn't let her make that decision since he was the coach (1st year). She said fine, she would skip Track. He was only willing to see what he wasn't going to have and not what he was going to get. OUr club coaches believe that the HS sport came first. They may not love that when it comes to setting up practice schedules but understand that in the long run, you get one high school career and if you want to enjoy it to the extent of playing another sport, they will be accomodating. Basketball was the first love of all three of my girls. I coached them early on (maybe that's why they gave it up ) and they loved the game...until they got the taste of VB. I have to say that with the physicality of the BBall game, I am glad they made this choice.
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Post by mango on Jan 22, 2009 10:24:59 GMT -5
As a former club coach and a current college coach I understand some parents frustration with this issue. Mango I don't think it is dumbing down the clubs. What you have to realize is that club volleyball has gotten to be a me me me......thing. Kids and parents could care less about the team half of the time. I know every club is different but a lot of them try and offer different teams to fit the need of the consumer. Red, blue,training team, elite...etc. I don't think clubs are forcing kids to play at all. Just look at how the cost has gotten out of control. If anything they are forcing kids out that can't afford it. Just because little Susie can't be on the best team and show up when it is convenient for her doesn't mean the rest of the team should suffer. Life is about making commitments and sacrifices. If they want to do both then they play on the team that is formatted to that need. Actually the problem resides with the clubs, not the "me, me, me" attitude and the alleged "lack of commitment" to a club team. I have heard this argument before. The club wants a "full commitment" and to have anything less is the reason cited for club losses. Who cares if a club team loses just as long as the kids are getting the fundamentals ? What you express is a true club owner's point of view which is to profit and to enhance that profit by forcing kid's to focus on winning so the club can enhance its reputation and even make claims like SPRI that they'll guarantee you a college scholarship.
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Post by cruncher on Jan 22, 2009 11:19:24 GMT -5
One of ours played both basketball and volleyball from early-on though high school. Our observation was that volleyball is growing in popularity because of the social nature of the club system.
Because of the way club tournaments are structured (play, sit two hours, play sit two hours, repeat all weekend) the kids spend much more time socializing together. They also socialize more with the other kids at the tournaments that they may know, especially at the younger age levels. Not so in b-ball. You play a game and take off with your family most of the time. While the standing around and waiting for the next match may be the bane of parents' existence, the kids love it.
As for the physical nature of basketball, we actually saw an interesting double standard. While boys b-ball is very physical, the refs actually discouraged a physical, aggressive style of play for the girls, even at the high school level.
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Post by vball2313 on Jan 22, 2009 11:23:39 GMT -5
Define " full commitment" ? If you mean an athlete committed to getting better? committed to the training? committed to the team? committed to success (you could argue if this means winning)? If your going to miss practice, not care about winning, miss tournaments, and just slide through practice week by week, why even play club? I saw this attitude with parents and kids. They all want the cake and eat it to and then complain that the free fork and plate you gave them to eat it on wasn't good enough! The fact is that clubs are a business and they do have profit margins to worry about or they wouldn't be around lessening the opportunities for female vb players. My club was set up as a Not For Profit and believe me we didn't make a killing. We did not focus on winning but instead focused on the process (training). If kids don't care about the outcome how can you respect the process? Why is winning important is H.S. ? Why is it important in college? and not in club? Or do you not think its important at all at any level? Winning is not just x's and o's or fundamentals. I would think SPRI would feel pretty confident about making that claim on their first few teams. Top 20 or so kids in a 4-5 million metro area? Just because they may be one way or the other doesn't mean the whole club system is to blame.
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Post by cruncher on Jan 22, 2009 11:33:37 GMT -5
Define " full commitment" ? If you mean an athlete committed to getting better? committed to the training? committed to the team? committed to success (you could argue if this means winning)? If your going to miss practice, not care about winning, miss tournaments, and just slide through practice week by week, why even play club? I saw this attitude with parents and kids. They all want the cake and eat it to and then complain that the free fork and plate you gave them to eat it on wasn't good enough! The fact is that clubs are a business and they do have profit margins to worry about or they wouldn't be around lessening the opportunities for female vb players. My club was set up as a Not For Profit and believe me we didn't make a killing. We did not focus on winning but instead focused on the process (training). If kids don't care about the outcome how can you respect the process? Why is winning important is H.S. ? Why is it important in college? and not in club? Or do you not think its important at all at any level? Winning is not just x's and o's or fundamentals. I would think SPRI would feel pretty confident about making that claim on their first few teams. Top 20 or so kids in a 4-5 million metro area? Just because they may be one way or the other doesn't mean the whole club system is to blame. But you can't hold a whole club responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole club system? And if the whole club system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!
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Post by vball2313 on Jan 22, 2009 11:47:40 GMT -5
Cruncher
I am not quite sure I understand what you are trying to say?
Maybe I went brain dead......What was your argument?
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Post by cruncher on Jan 22, 2009 11:56:54 GMT -5
It's a quote from "Animal House" edited to fit your argument. It's Otter's famous speech in front of Dean Wormer and the fraternity council. Guess you have to be old enough to get the joke.
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Post by skydrifter on Jan 22, 2009 12:15:36 GMT -5
Cruncher, YOU ARE RIGHT. They were bad mouthing the United States-- a lot like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
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Post by mango on Jan 22, 2009 12:20:12 GMT -5
Define " full commitment" ? My club was set up as a Not For Profit doesn't mean the whole club system is to blame. The problem is that club volleyball is overdone in every way imaginable. The programs have gotten glutenous, much like the overly large clunkers that come out of Detroit....too many practices, too long a season, too much travel and too much money for tournaments, so much so that it forces club programs to "select" only those kids who are solely devoted to volleyball and families who are wealthy enough to purchase the privilege. God forbid if there was a piano lesson that interfered with practice, especially if the kid were an aspiring setter. She'd be relegated to the "D" team and compete with the unclean.
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Post by vball2313 on Jan 22, 2009 14:12:49 GMT -5
Mango I would agree that the cost is getting out of control. It does push a lot of kids out. These clubs are not the only ones "selecting" the athletes. The athletes are selecting them to. Hard to blame the club for giving the consumer what they want. Access is the problem here, as not all can afford it.
"God forbid if there was a piano lesson that interfered with practice, especially if the kid were an aspiring setter. She'd be relegated to the "D" team and compete with the unclean. "
I have a hard time with this statement in the sense that earlier you said "Who cares if a club team loses just as long as the kids are getting the fundamentals ? " Whats wrong with the "D" team if it fits the athlete's needs better? Most clubs have programs in place that are specifically for kids that play other sports or do other activities.
So you only care about getting the fundamentals but you want less practice and less playing? We all want less cost! I am having trouble following your logic here.
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Post by mingo32 on Jan 22, 2009 14:59:47 GMT -5
Bottom line is you need both club directors and HS coaches to compromise a bit. Some will some won't. We are lucky that we have a club that will let athletes play HS baskeetball. Another club in area won't. I have heard some coaches say yes and then make kid feel terrible that they aren't "more comitted" and treat them like dirt. Funny thing is that most dual athletes are your best ones, and chasing them out of program only hurts your program. We usually run into one conflict a year with a qualifier, we just made it very clear up front that volleyball in our case will come first. It is a good idea to sit down before season and make sure all partied understand, what the priorites are when conflicts arise. Most of the college volleyball coaches recruiting my daughter like her playing basketball as it keeps ther body balanced out, and they don't come into their program with overuse problems.
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Post by bones on Jan 22, 2009 21:36:03 GMT -5
Back in the day, I was told that by not playing high school basketball (I wanted to play volleyball year round) that I was making a huge mistake. As a very tall athlete at a small school, much of the athletic department looked on me as being selfish and self-centered.
The truth is, I just wanted to play volleyball. I didn't really like basketball, and I was good at volleyball. So what's the big deal if volleyball is evolving into a year round sport? Some people dig it. I did.
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Post by verybasicdad on Jan 22, 2009 23:14:25 GMT -5
My daughter also played at Club Fusion when the club was new. She also played basketball throughout HS and the sacrifice was not one of the BB coach or the club but rather that of my daughter. She went from BB practice to club practice three nights a week and then had club matches and basketball games on the same weekends. The two sports made her a better athlete and enhanced both sports but limited the social HS experience. Throw in the desire to excel at academics and then you have the real pickle of playing two sports, especially BB and VB. She was told not to play HS BB by her HS VB coach but after watching her play he quickly changed his mind and became one of her biggest BB fans. It wasn't up to the Club or HS coaches, it was up to her and she enjoyed both sports so SHE made the sacrifice to play both. It's up to the athlete to make the choice and if your kid is in a club that is upset about her playing both sports then leave the club as many others will be glad to have her play. Most college programs would rather have an athletic VB player than just a VB player. Encourage your kids to play as many sports as THEY want to.
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