|
Post by onceabighitter on Mar 3, 2010 15:11:12 GMT -5
Just here to "stir the pot" a bit. Noticed alot of chatter about the Big Ten being strong this year. Made me think back a bit...and its kinda funny to think about. But by my memory, this so-called STRONG CONFERENCE has ZERO National Championships, only one Championship apearance (Illinois) and maybe a few Top 4 finishes (all by Illinois from my recollection).
You'd think a STRONG conference would have had a few years with some other teams at least cracking the Semis?
This is off the top of my head, but seems the WVC has had 3 quality teams (Osh and Lake winning titles, and Marquette making a final (I thnk). The NCCVL has been the most dominant with Cal, Fresno and Sac all winning multiple NCs and mkaing numerous Top 4 finishes. Plus two others Davis and Humbolt have been in finals, and I believe Cal Poly and maybe Santa Clara made semis at one time or another? Mountain has Arizona, Colorado and UVSC all win titles, I think ASU cracked Top 4 once. Seriously...with so many teams, how is it that the entire Big 10 has performed so terribly on the Big Stage? Am I missing a result where anoth big Ten team outside Illinois has ever done ANYTHING at Nationals? Ever? What am I missing?
|
|
|
Post by athalete on Mar 3, 2010 16:13:29 GMT -5
Marquette did win in 05, UW-Oshkosh in 06 & 07, Lakeland in 08, and Oshkosh was in the finals last year, Lakeland finishing 3rd. I believe Marquette also has a top 3 in there as well. Illinois is really the only team that has reached that level of consistency from the Big 10.
|
|
|
Post by mivalum on Mar 3, 2010 16:23:41 GMT -5
Just here to "stir the pot" a bit. Noticed alot of chatter about the Big Ten being strong this year. Made me think back a bit...and its kinda funny to think about. But by my memory, this so-called STRONG CONFERENCE has ZERO National Championships, only one Championship apearance (Illinois) and maybe a few Top 4 finishes (all by Illinois from my recollection). You'd think a STRONG conference would have had a few years with some other teams at least cracking the Semis? This is off the top of my head, but seems the WVC has had 3 quality teams (Osh and Lake winning titles, and Marquette making a final (I thnk). The NCCVL has been the most dominant with Cal, Fresno and Sac all winning multiple NCs and mkaing numerous Top 4 finishes. Plus two others Davis and Humbolt have been in finals, and I believe Cal Poly and maybe Santa Clara made semis at one time or another? Mountain has Arizona, Colorado and UVSC all win titles, I think ASU cracked Top 4 once. Seriously...with so many teams, how is it that the entire Big 10 has performed so terribly on the Big Stage? Am I missing a result where anoth big Ten team outside Illinois has ever done ANYTHING at Nationals? Ever? What am I missing? The Big Ten IS having a good season so far. Is there something untrue about that statement? Love the way people trash talk on this site. You are right, the Big Ten has not won a NC. They have had many teams finish in Gold at nationals however, and despite not having a NC, I think they probably would still qualify as one of the strongest conferences in the country.... certainly for students actually earning a degree and not just enrolling to play volleyball. But that's a different topic...
|
|
|
Post by onceabighitter on Mar 3, 2010 19:28:21 GMT -5
The Big Ten IS having a good season so far. Is there something untrue about that statement? Love the way people trash talk on this site. You are right, the Big Ten has not won a NC. They have had many teams finish in Gold at nationals however, and despite not having a NC, I think they probably would still qualify as one of the strongest conferences in the country.... certainly for students actually earning a degree and not just enrolling to play volleyball. But that's a different topic... LOL...sound a bit bitter much? BTW...I didnt say the Big Ten wasn't strong this year. Nor did I say they were not a good conference. My point is merely that for such a powerful conference, its rather amazing to look back and see how poorly the Big Ten has shown at Nationals for what, 25 years? And to be honest, I do think Minnesota made a Final Four once in the 90's.so you got that for you. With that said your "many teams making the Gold Round" is kinda funny to me. "Woo whooo" your team made the top 16 teams....to which I say, "big deal". As for your other comment about "degrees earned"? It may be true, it may not be...I'm guessing you have no real statistics to back it up (because I am sure there are no statistics out there for Club VB teams 'degrees earned'). So I suggest you use actual stats to back up that insinuation or just hold onto that excuse next time a Big Ten top seed takes a 5th or 9th place at Nationals.
|
|
|
Post by mivalum on Mar 3, 2010 23:43:42 GMT -5
The Big Ten IS having a good season so far. Is there something untrue about that statement? Love the way people trash talk on this site. You are right, the Big Ten has not won a NC. They have had many teams finish in Gold at nationals however, and despite not having a NC, I think they probably would still qualify as one of the strongest conferences in the country.... certainly for students actually earning a degree and not just enrolling to play volleyball. But that's a different topic... LOL...sound a bit bitter much? BTW...I didnt say the Big Ten wasn't strong this year. Nor did I say they were not a good conference. My point is merely that for such a powerful conference, its rather amazing to look back and see how poorly the Big Ten has shown at Nationals for what, 25 years? And to be honest, I do think Minnesota made a Final Four once in the 90's.so you got that for you. With that said your "many teams making the Gold Round" is kinda funny to me. "Woo whooo" your team made the top 16 teams....to which I say, "big deal". As for your other comment about "degrees earned"? It may be true, it may not be...I'm guessing you have no real statistics to back it up (because I am sure there are no statistics out there for Club VB teams 'degrees earned'). So I suggest you use actual stats to back up that insinuation or just hold onto that excuse next time a Big Ten top seed takes a 5th or 9th place at Nationals. You are right that it is odd that the Big Ten has not won a national championship. I never suggested it wasn't. Regardless, earning a degree and a gold finish at nationals is admirable for any club player/team, no matter what conference they may be in. As for the academic status of past club champions, if I am not mistaken, there is a reason they have eligibility rules these days. Anyone who has been around club ball knows about people who took classes just in order to play volleyball, got money to play, etc. There was even a Wisconsin school called MATC that had their national championship stripped because their players weren't legit.
|
|
|
Post by onceabighitter on Mar 4, 2010 1:49:33 GMT -5
LOL...sound a bit bitter much? BTW...I didnt say the Big Ten wasn't strong this year. Nor did I say they were not a good conference. My point is merely that for such a powerful conference, its rather amazing to look back and see how poorly the Big Ten has shown at Nationals for what, 25 years? And to be honest, I do think Minnesota made a Final Four once in the 90's.so you got that for you. With that said your "many teams making the Gold Round" is kinda funny to me. "Woo whooo" your team made the top 16 teams....to which I say, "big deal". As for your other comment about "degrees earned"? It may be true, it may not be...I'm guessing you have no real statistics to back it up (because I am sure there are no statistics out there for Club VB teams 'degrees earned'). So I suggest you use actual stats to back up that insinuation or just hold onto that excuse next time a Big Ten top seed takes a 5th or 9th place at Nationals. You are right that it is odd that the Big Ten has not won a national championship. I never suggested it wasn't. Regardless, earning a degree and a gold finish at nationals is admirable for any club player/team, no matter what conference they may be in. As for the academic status of past club champions, if I am not mistaken, there is a reason they have eligibility rules these days. Anyone who has been around club ball knows about people who took classes just in order to play volleyball, got money to play, etc. There was even a Wisconsin school called MATC that had their national championship stripped because their players weren't legit. You seemed to insinuate that no Big Ten schools were among those who had players going to school merely for volleyball, or at least that they did it less often than others. To which I say, what info do you use to make that comment? And yes there always have been (and always will be) guys who focus more on vb than academics, and graduating. The new rule limiting undergrads to what, 5 or 6 years of playing time isnt doing much to curb that. As for guys being "paid to play"....um...really? Arizona received a nice "influx" of cash from a donor/sponsor one year that they could use anyway they see fit, but one could make an arguement that certain teams have advantages over others even today. Some schools get no money at all from their school's rec/club/intramural department, while other schools get funding up to 5 figures. Yet they all play in the same division. I digress, as my initial point is merely that the Big Ten seems to always have a VERY HIGHLY RANKED TEAM (top 1-3 in the Nation), and that team ALWAYS underperforms. I believe Michigan State in the 90's, Indiana (early 2000's) and Illinois recently (although they get props from making the final, FINALLY) all entered Nationals ranked #1 or #2, and each failed to hold up their end of the bargain. So while that conference clearly is a solid one with great support and organization, you will allow us on the other side of the country to not take their midseason results too seriously until they actually win a tourney that matters. For goodness sake, the East Teams have more NC apearances than than Big Ten, thats sad.
|
|
vt13
Junior High
Posts: 3
|
Post by vt13 on Mar 4, 2010 10:06:08 GMT -5
People need to stop worrying about the past so much, who cares what happened in the 90's, or 2005 for that matter. Let's focus on the season at hand
|
|
|
Post by mivalum on Mar 4, 2010 13:23:49 GMT -5
People need to stop worrying about the past so much, who cares what happened in the 90's, or 2005 for that matter. Let's focus on the season at hand Agreed. Current players and teams are the ones that count. As for the season at hand it seems that there some scattered results and that the door is pretty wide open with some of the traditional strong teams still cranking out w's. Any big events this coming weekend?
|
|
|
Post by foreveryoung on Mar 4, 2010 13:43:04 GMT -5
Lakeland hosts the second half of Midwest 10s playdate on Saturday
|
|
|
Post by vtmiddle24 on Mar 4, 2010 17:03:20 GMT -5
interesting observation: either the rankings have been getting more accurate, or the gap in talent between the top teams and the rest of the pack has been widening, because no team ranked lower than 9 has made the semifinals since 2005
|
|
|
Post by VolleyTalker on Mar 4, 2010 17:19:33 GMT -5
the BYU team that won in 3-straight (86-87-88) was a really good
|
|
|
Post by vtmiddle24 on Mar 4, 2010 19:38:37 GMT -5
neat
|
|
|
Post by onceabighitter on Mar 4, 2010 20:48:56 GMT -5
interesting observation: either the rankings have been getting more accurate, or the gap in talent between the top teams and the rest of the pack has been widening, because no team ranked lower than 9 has made the semifinals since 2005 I dont think the talent gap has widened, I think its the opposite in fact. I dont have the exact numbers in front of me, but back in the 90's and early part of the 2000's , you could generally chose the teams that would make the Final 4 from a very small list of say 6-8 teams. The gap between the TOP team/s in a given year, and the next level was fairly big . I think that is for two reasons. 1) I think the overall level of the top teams is down a 'smidge', maybe because of the eligibility rules. The Sac St and Arizonas and Cal of their day were a notch above the champs I saw most recently (Oshkosh and Lakeland were last two national champs I witnessed). But the overall depth of the tournament these days is better than its ever been. The rankings are likely more accurate heading into Nationals because there is more interleague and intersectional matches during the season (ie..Vegas tourney). All in all, club ball has morphed into something much better than it was before, and I think the competitive balance is better than ever.
|
|
|
Post by mivalum on Mar 5, 2010 16:30:52 GMT -5
interesting observation: either the rankings have been getting more accurate, or the gap in talent between the top teams and the rest of the pack has been widening, because no team ranked lower than 9 has made the semifinals since 2005 I think another factor has been rules of the game changes. Those of us who played back in the day remember that when the ball spun out of your hand or tumbled off your platform, a whistle was blown! Now you can rake the net, and do all kinds of nasty things to the ball, net, etc, and still score points.
|
|
Lew8ftln
Sophomore
Tweet? Follow team updates @oshkoshmvball or myself @bigfire8
Posts: 163
|
Post by Lew8ftln on Mar 7, 2010 10:25:11 GMT -5
Update from Iowa Spring Classic: UW Whitewater earned #1 seed to bracket play today by defeating Iowa and Dupage in crossovers. Mizzou lost to Dupage and beat Iowa to take 3 seed, and Oshkosh 2 beat Eau Claire and St Ambrose to take 4 seed and will play Iowa.
|
|