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Post by NotKingOfAnything on Aug 3, 2010 14:49:29 GMT -5
A question to the group, what are your perceptions as to what percentage of schools run the 5-1?
Does it change from D1, D2, and D3?
Obviously it changes based on the talent level at setter, but generally....
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Post by rbball02 on Aug 3, 2010 14:51:29 GMT -5
most run a 5-1 baring different circumstances like having a setter who is a talented hitter or 2 RS and 2 setters that are about equal.
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Post by Keystonekid on Aug 3, 2010 16:06:15 GMT -5
Are you asking me or Ruffda?
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Post by sevb on Aug 3, 2010 16:34:20 GMT -5
Are there really perceptions to this?? It seems like a straight forward math question... 311 D1 schools 269 D2 schools X# D3 X# D4 how many run a 5-1 vs how many run a 6-2
Did you mean why WOULD a coach run a 5-1 vs a 6-2, and what would the differences be in the various levels of play?
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Post by NotKingOfAnything on Aug 3, 2010 21:35:34 GMT -5
Are there really perceptions to this?? It seems like a straight forward math question... 311 D1 schools 269 D2 schools X# D3 X# D4 how many run a 5-1 vs how many run a 6-2 Did you mean why WOULD a coach run a 5-1 vs a 6-2, and what would the differences be in the various levels of play? Well yeah it would be a straight forward math question of that's a stat that is kept. If it is and I should be able to find it otherwise, my apologies for wasting the board's time with the question. I'm curious how many schools run the 5-1 and how many are running 6-2. Seems to me (no I'm not an expert, just a fan and a dad) that most schools do run 5-1 but some don't. In my area, I follow the only local D1 (UMN) and D2 (Concordia) teams, and they both had stud setters last year and ran 5-1. There are several D3 around here, but I don't have a grasp on that. St Thomas has a vg setter and runs 5-1, but I'm not recalling what some of the others ran last year. Are you asking me or Ruffda? asking anyone with an input, really.
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Post by BearClause on Aug 3, 2010 22:28:49 GMT -5
I'm curious how many schools run the 5-1 and how many are running 6-2. Seems to me (no I'm not an expert, just a fan and a dad) that most schools do run 5-1 but some don't. In my area, I follow the only local D1 (UMN) and D2 (Concordia) teams, and they both had stud setters last year and ran 5-1. It depends on the personnel, with coaches changing the situation as personnel change, as well as the occasional mid-season or even mid-game switch. I remember Santa Clara starting out with a 6-2 in 2004, which they abandoned by the end of the season. Stanford has tried variations on the 6-2 in recent years. Back in 2004 Minn was running a 6-2 with Bowman as a setter/hitter. She even made 1st team AA. I don't recall the last time a setter/hitter out of a 6-2 made 1st team AA. I'm thinking way back maybe the 6-2s run at Stanford might have with Wendell and Sharpley.
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Post by Rich Kern on Aug 3, 2010 22:41:14 GMT -5
In glancing through stats from last year's DI teams, I didn't see any that looked like they ran a 6-2 for the season. I looked for teams that had two setters that had approximately the same number of sets for the season. For those few I found, I looked at individual matches and those all indicated one setter per set.
As stated by others, other than just situational 6-2s, just coming up with the right type of athletes is not very common. Even less common is having those types and combinations of athletes be able to play together in a way that will actually better your team.
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Post by roy on Aug 3, 2010 22:52:04 GMT -5
It depends on the personnel, with coaches changing the situation as personnel change, as well as the occasional mid-season or even mid-game switch. I remember Santa Clara starting out with a 6-2 in 2004, which they abandoned by the end of the season. Stanford has tried variations on the 6-2 in recent years. To add to a bit of this, there are variations of the 6-2. The true 6-2 used only 6 players where the right side and setter would not be subbed out but play right side in the front row and setter in the back. With the amount of substitutions allowed in college volleyball, we see a lot of variations of the 6-2. I think Texas, Stanford, and Florida last season ran their 6-2 using 7 players where one player played setter and right side while 2 additional players filled the second spot at setter and the other at the right. We see 6-2 run with 8 players where the smaller setters get replaced by bigger right side hitters in the front row and vice versa, using 2 subs at a time. We even saw Nebraska do their version of the 6-2 a few years ago subbing out their middles for setters and using their libero to sub out for the right side hitter. I can clearly remember Hawaii using something I think should be called a modified 5-1 in 2002 with a taller setter in the front row and smaller setter in the back row, so the setters subbed each other while the right side player stayed in the game. So, I'm not sure if this question can be answered very well. Maybe a better question would be, "how many programs don't run the standard 5-1 offense?" How to answer that question, that I don't know.
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Post by bownlovingfreak on Aug 3, 2010 23:32:29 GMT -5
I don't like 6'2"s, because in the college game there is inevitably a right side hitter who is big and awkward and doesn't get the ball enough. FSU ran a 6-2 and they had a blonde right side who was a bit awkward.
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Post by NotKingOfAnything on Aug 3, 2010 23:32:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the responses everyone and sorry I wasn't clear in my question.
Roy I think you are correct, maybe that should have been my question. It's clear I'm not a "great volleyball mind" like many here and I'm learning something at every match I watch.
I guess my question stems from watching my daughter play, who was at 15's club level as a shorter (5'5) but athletic setter. The team started as a 6-2 and moved to her running a 5-1 when the other setter proved to be ... uh a better right side. Earlier she was subbing out with a RS and the other setter staying in for front row duty. The team played MUCH better under a 5-1 and I'm not sure it was just the setter either.
So it shows that yes, a coach adapts through the season (or match for that matter) depending on the capabilities of those on the team.
Watching teams with talented setters (blessed in this area with McNamara, Curico, McNeil, Foster), I'm more drawn to the 5-1 of course, and I'm thinking I'm just not aware of what the other teams are doing.
So thanks all, for putting up with my noobness.
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Post by bunnywailer on Aug 3, 2010 23:44:48 GMT -5
If I ever get a college job, I'm running the middle-school 6-0 offense or the Reverse-Coed 3-3 offense.
Just because.
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Post by jgrout on Aug 3, 2010 23:46:55 GMT -5
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Post by jgrout on Aug 3, 2010 23:54:24 GMT -5
I can clearly remember Hawaii using something I think should be called a modified 5-1 in 2002 with a taller setter in the front row and smaller setter in the back row, so the setters subbed each other while the right side player stayed in the game. Stanford did this for a while with taller (but banged up) Anna Robinson and shorter (and more mobile) Katie Goldhahn sharing the setter rotation. Since Stanford didn't add any wrinkles to the offense for one setter and not the other (as far as I could tell), I had always considered it to be a straight 5-1.
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Post by BearClause on Aug 4, 2010 0:25:31 GMT -5
If a setter-hitter has to set half the time to count, I believe the last one (before Bowman) to make 1st-team AA was Cary Wendell in 1995 (who was AVCA co-NPOY to boot)... raising the subsequent question of whether or not any other setter-hitter has been AVCA NPOY. Sharpley made AVCA 1st team AA in 1995 with Wendell. That might have even been the only year where a 6-2 setter/hitter pair made AA together, and both 1st team to boot.
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Post by Rich Kern on Aug 4, 2010 6:50:19 GMT -5
Do setter-hitters that don't set at least half the time not count? Cassidy Lichtman was the last 1st team AA (in 2009) without such a criterion (or something like it).... Cook set enough more than Lichtman for Stanford's offense to not meet Rich's statistical criteria. I'm a bit surprised that Florida also did not... the Gators appeared to be playing a 6-2 against Stanford in Stockton. Cook set about twice as many as Lichtman (776 vs. 384) so that would have fallen outside the quick criteria that I set. Florida was closer with Murphy and Rodgers at 760 vs. 479 but when I looked at the final match of the season, Murphy set 26 balls and Rodgers had 0 so it looked like they dropped it by the end of the season.
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