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Post by jsn112 on Dec 19, 2010 14:27:55 GMT -5
I am a PSU fan, but Mike Garrison is 100% right. Even if you acknowledge PSU as the best team this year, you have to admit that their tournament schedule was relatively easy. That they were gifted with a relatively easy schedule does not mean that they are not the best, it just means that they were exogenously given a more likely shot at the NC than a team like Cal. Again, they are (most likely) better than Cal. But it was harder for Cal to get to the final than it was for PSU to get to the final. That's all I am seeing people say and I agree with it. All you can really do is say "oh well" and acknowledge this fact as evidence that the seeding process is really difficult given the multiple constraints the committee is under. Give it a rest. |
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Post by nyline on Dec 19, 2010 14:47:28 GMT -5
Why? Cal had to play them then. The round of 16 is when seeded teams are supposed to be playing other seeded teams. I'm not complaining that the wrong team won the tournament. I'm complaining that the wrong tournament was played. There is a difference between the two complaints, but some of you folks are too defensive to accept that. What a bunch of BS. You come on here and spout of a bunch of crap like , "some" will say their accomplishment is tarnished, or "there are those" who won't give them credit, and "many" will remember the easy path............blah blah blah. some=you there are those=you many=you Dang man, have some conviction for your opinion instead of your thinly veiled attempt to speak for the masses. And then you hold up you hands in surprise that people are offended? "Who me? What did I do? If you have a problem with the "wrong tournament being played" and not the "wrong team won the tournament", then is it not quite possible the points you have to make would be better served on a different thread? +1. |
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Post by ccman on Dec 19, 2010 14:47:46 GMT -5
All championship teams are not equal, but each sweet in their own way. UCLA lost Alcinder after 3 straight NCAAs where they dominated, and then had a team in 1970 with no superstar, lost some games, but come tournament time they just won (the Rowe-Wickes team with a sophomore guard Henry Bibby). This is a real historical win for Rose & PSU, you can't help but look at Rose and the PSU program and see parallels to Wooden. Both took diverse talents (Wooden had exceptional success/relationships with all sorts of personalities) and created efficient teamwork. Watching PSU 1st set made me think of Wooden's quote 'Be quick, but don't hurry', PSU was quick and Cal was the hurried team.
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Post by nyline on Dec 19, 2010 14:49:46 GMT -5
Again, they are (most likely) better than Cal. But it was harder for Cal to get to the final than it was for PSU to get to the final. That's all I am seeing people say and I agree with it. All you can really do is say "oh well" and acknowledge this fact as evidence that the seeding process is really difficult given the multiple constraints the committee is under. Penn State "most likely" better than Cal?  Penn State was demonstrably better than Cal in the only arena that counts for 2010 NCAA Women's Volleyball -- the Final Match in Kansas City, a 3-0 sweep by Penn State. |
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Post by vball24 on Dec 19, 2010 15:04:53 GMT -5
Again, they are (most likely) better than Cal. But it was harder for Cal to get to the final than it was for PSU to get to the final. That's all I am seeing people say and I agree with it. All you can really do is say "oh well" and acknowledge this fact as evidence that the seeding process is really difficult given the multiple constraints the committee is under. Penn State "most likely" better than Cal? Penn State was demonstrably better than Cal in the only arena that counts for 2010 NCAA Women's Volleyball -- the Final Match in Kansas City, a 3-0 sweep by Penn State. you realize they are a psu fan right? don't get caught up on little words so much |
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Dec 19, 2010 15:08:23 GMT -5
While the quality of the regional competition does have an impact on team's chances of getting to the final four, when it comes to winning the championship, it generally is a minor aspect compared to what happens in the Final Four.
If Penn St got to the final four and bombed, then, sure, their regional matchups diminish that. But when the team wins the national championship, dominating to the extent they did, the early path doesn't mean much. Most of the chance of losing for the top teams comes in those last two matches. You get through them, beating two teams that have survived the rest of the field, and you have earned your championship.
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Post by vball24 on Dec 19, 2010 15:11:46 GMT -5
i think mike garrison is exactly right, and for all you psu fans getting mad at him he is NOT saying psu isn't the best team or that they don't deserve the title this year. he is talking more about the tournament overall, and any person would have to be dumb to not admit the tournament was set up very poorly.
There is also something to be said about seeing your team get challenged to a greater degree in the post season. We are not saying psu should have been in the most insane regional ever to prevent psu from winning, simply it's always better to see high competition. that's all.
NOTHING is denying the fact that PSU is the best team in the nation regardless of how the tournament was set up. but we can gripe about the tournament while agreeing that psu is the best team or is that too hard for everyone?
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 19, 2010 15:13:12 GMT -5
Like I said several times. PSU was the best team. They are the champions. Pablo #1. Blah blah blah. Consider it all said again. OK?
OK, so now if you can get past your defensiveness, can't you admit it would have been better if PSU had faced more quality opponents along the way? I mean, really, the only people being short-changed here are the PSU fans themselves, who had to watch a pretty boring tournament all the way up until the FF.
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Post by foreignball on Dec 19, 2010 15:19:48 GMT -5
Is this just me that have noticed the majority of posters who have bashed PSU for having a cupcake walk to the NC, etc. are not Cal fans? Most of them are Pac-10 supporters but not actually Cal ones. On the other hand most of the “real” Cal followers have reacted very classy.
When it comes to polls, seedings, brackets etc. how many of you can honestly say that they are always fare? This is true not only about NCAA vball but also about any other sport even internationally. The most recent example that comes to my mind is the Mens Vball WC 2010. It was crystal clear that FIVB arranged the pools and set the competition rules in such a way that would allow the home team (Italy) to advance at least to the semis. Some teams even quietly boycotted it – in their pool game against Bulgaria Brazil showed up with their subs and lost it on purpose. After it quite a few of the spectators lined up at the organization committee office asking for their money back.
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Post by ccman on Dec 19, 2010 15:24:42 GMT -5
"the only people being short-changed here are the PSU fans themselves, who had to watch a pretty boring tournament all the way up until the FF"
something tells me PSU fans will be quite happy with a 'boring' championship because of the final. Fans and lore will remember one thing - beating a great Cal team with the National COY & POY for the championship. I can't remember who Long Beach beat in 1998 along the way and for the semis, but I can sure remember beating a great undefeated PSU team in finals. Victory is sweet.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 19, 2010 15:46:37 GMT -5
Why? Cal had to play them then. The round of 16 is when seeded teams are supposed to be playing other seeded teams. I'm not complaining that the wrong team won the tournament. I'm complaining that the wrong tournament was played. There is a difference between the two complaints, but some of you folks are too defensive to accept that. What a bunch of BS. You come on here and spout of a bunch of crap like , "some" will say their accomplishment is tarnished, or "there are those" who won't give them credit, and "many" will remember the easy path............blah blah blah. some=you there are those=you many=you Dang man, have some conviction for your opinion instead of your thinly veiled attempt to speak for the masses. And then you hold up you hands in surprise that people are offended? "Who me? What did I do? If you have a problem with the "wrong tournament being played" and not the "wrong team won the tournament", then is it not quite possible the points you have to make would be better served on a different thread? You are blaming me for what other people have written. You also seem to be projecting upon me a motivation that I don't have. My motivation here is not to try and diminish the accomplishment of PSU or anybody else. My motivation here is to encourage the NCAA to make a better, more exciting, more competitive tournament. Nebraska/Washington was exciting. There were 20 pages of posts written on it before the first serve even happened. PSU/Oklahoma? Not so much. Don't the PSU fans want to share in that kind of fun? |
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Post by foreignball on Dec 19, 2010 15:48:10 GMT -5
I am a PSU fan, but Mike Garrison is 100% right. Even if you acknowledge PSU as the best team this year, you have to admit that their tournament schedule was relatively easy. That they were gifted with a relatively easy schedule does not mean that they are not the best, it just means that they were exogenously given a more likely shot at the NC than a team like Cal. Again, they are (most likely) better than Cal. But it was harder for Cal to get to the final than it was for PSU to get to the final. That's all I am seeing people say and I agree with it. All you can really do is say "oh well" and acknowledge this fact as evidence that the seeding process is really difficult given the multiple constraints the committee is under. Let me ask you this: isn't it the easy/tough pre-season; season and post-season schedules what most of VT posters tend to whine about all the time? I myself am not a fan of all that just because any coach/team has own goals and plans how to achieve them. For some an easy pre-season seem better, for some others it is the other way around. One goal that all elite coaches/teams have in common is to win the NC. So everyone is free to choose their way however every year there is only 1 coach/team who achieves it. Everything else is irrelevant. By using your example Cal should've been prepared much better and had a lot higher confidence playing in a tougher conference (arguably) and having tougher road to the FF i.e. they must have had advantage over PSU. It didn't work out so now it is PSU fault because their way was easier, they played weaker opponents etc. Can one say "Double standard"? There is a very simple rule that applies to all aspects of our lives: one has to deal with whatever he/she has in his hands. It wasn't PSU fault they got an easier road and according to quite a few VT "professors" that should have hurt them to begin with (however it did not). I’ll end this with a saying from my native country: When one is good he/she is good and the dog bark doesn’t change that. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 19, 2010 15:50:17 GMT -5
It didn't work out so now it is PSU fault because their way was easier, they played weaker opponents etc. Can one say "Double standard"? Not one person has said their draw was PSU's fault. Can one say "straw man argument"? |
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 19, 2010 16:10:30 GMT -5
OK, here's a pablo-seeded sweet 16:
PSU v. Tulsa (Oklahoma)
Florida v. UCLA
Stanford v. San Diego
Texas v. UNI (Missouri)
USC v. Tennessee (Indiana)
Minnesota v. Washington
Nebraska v. Purdue
California v. Dayton (Ohio State)
Wouldn't that have been more interesting to everybody? Each round would have had one seeded team that fell unexpectedly. The exact same four teams might have ended up in the FF anyway. But there would have been a lot more exciting volleyball to watch in the regionals, I think.
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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Dec 19, 2010 16:16:34 GMT -5
What a bunch of BS. You come on here and spout of a bunch of crap like , "some" will say their accomplishment is tarnished, or "there are those" who won't give them credit, and "many" will remember the easy path............blah blah blah. some=you there are those=you many=you Dang man, have some conviction for your opinion instead of your thinly veiled attempt to speak for the masses. And then you hold up you hands in surprise that people are offended? "Who me? What did I do? If you have a problem with the "wrong tournament being played" and not the "wrong team won the tournament", then is it not quite possible the points you have to make would be better served on a different thread?
My motivation here is not to try and diminish the accomplishment of PSU or anybody else. My motivation here is to encourage the NCAA to make a better, more exciting, more competitive tournament. Nebraska/Washington was exciting. There were 20 pages of posts written on it before the first serve even happened. PSU/Oklahoma? Not so much. Don't the PSU fans want to share in that kind of fun? Whether or not it was your intent, I doubt there are too many that would read your comments and say you're not trying to diminish the accomplishment of PSU. And I am not saying that I don't see valid points in what you're communicating. I am just saying if it is, as you say, two different issues, then it should be presented as such on a different thread. Otherwise, it's a very hallow "yeah, but" sort of acknowledgment of what is nothing short of a historic achievement. |
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