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Post by klazk on Jul 10, 2011 12:11:33 GMT -5
I agree with Jim. The diehards will watch high level volleyball because they enjoy the game.
But the casual fan has to have a rooting interest to become involved. Player interaction with fans and name recognition is key.
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Post by beachvolleymike on Jul 10, 2011 19:33:42 GMT -5
From the outside looking in I feel terrible for Al-B. It seamed he really tried to step up when nobody else was. He got his tour rolling and with a schedule. This will hurt his efforts I think. These Cuervo events that hold potential "trials" implications kinda force top teams to play in them. I feel really bad for Al-B. His heart is in the right place and he is getting things done.
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Post by beachvolleymike on Jul 10, 2011 19:38:25 GMT -5
Dave Williams' interview on Net.Live (7/5) sure was nice to hear in the arena of scrambling tours....He seemed to work with the CLWO & NVL to schedule such that no one loses out.....It really is ONE group of players nationally we want to see, whatever venue put them in the forefront is good and more is better..... I just wish SOMEBODY could understand the need to get player recognition...I guess its that way in any sport, but geezzz, I remember walking around Hermosa looking up at someone and having to try and read his shorts to know who he was.....OK, OK, the SF Giants don't have player names on the back of their home team uniform, but they have reached a pinnacle where you can "do that", but pro-volleyball...? Promoters, Players, agents, et. al.: Start getting some faces out there with a mechanism to identify them so someone has SOMEONE to root for other than the "usual" (Todd, Phil, Kerry, Misty (nothing against them, but...) at all these new venues coming up in Sept & Oct.... Fantastic point. I don't see why the faces (and let's face it, bodies) of pro beach players aren't in the media more often. I've seen some awesome pictures that people (even non-beach fans) would oogle at for athleticism and for sex appeal. The sport needs to use what it has, I say! Intelligent, good-looking players who are athletic as all hell!
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Post by volleyballjim on Jul 11, 2011 21:47:35 GMT -5
Here's some unrequested 'additional' critique of the AVP/Beach's effort to make a name for those other than the top tier players:
Watching a match, there is ONE scoreboard with the names on it: Who is Mayer? Who is Prosser? etc. I mean, I watched event after event seeing people wonder: "Which side is winning"... fans shouting over scores to others, people asking the ref what the score was....PLEASE.....There's an old saying: Don't confuse efforts with results: In this case it is literal and figurative: SHOW THE SCORE, IDENTIFY THE TEAMS, IDENTIFY THE PLAYERS....maybe you will build a fan knowledge base that might sell one more ticket...
Of course, you can be sitting on the side of the scoreboard where you can't even see who is winning/losing (in addition to who is playing)...I remember Jane Gibb making marks in the sand when I asked her "What are you doing"? Keeping score; I can't see the scoreboard....
All in all, I hope Dave Williams and the gang that will save our great sport will start over, use good ideas like berms for stadiums, brand the players and teams, put signs up etc. so people walk away with a better experience. If you watch 2 unknown teams play, you DO NOT walk away with what is necessary to grow the game.....I'd rather watch a Junior Olympics game where I know 4 players than a pro-beach where I don't know anyone...figuratively speaking at least...
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Post by richharris55 on Jul 11, 2011 22:51:05 GMT -5
volleyballjim, are you proposing going back to the mid 90's when the players ahd to have there name on there shirt. Or in Scott Ayackatubby (Spelling may be off) just wrote ACK on his back in marker. I'm not sure this will help anything. Just my opinion. They have there names on there shorts. Harder to read than a shirt but it's there.
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Post by johnbar on Jul 11, 2011 23:46:00 GMT -5
I think it would be great if fans walking by could identify who's who in a match. It's certainly something I have struggled with over the years. Just not sure what the most practical way to do it is; or how much of an impact it would have on the popularity of the sport.
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Post by volleyballjim on Jul 12, 2011 0:40:09 GMT -5
I would like to see something that differentiates players from fans....Can you imagine a ballplayer walking through fans and becoming camouflaged...? They are STARS and should be treated and "positioned" as such....I remember parking to see the Huntington AVP stop in 2009 and guess who parks in front of me: Todd & Phil....I'm like "Uh, they don't even give you valet parking and you're the BEST TEAM IN THE WORLD".....I almost started my car up and offered to drive them to the entrance, but didn't want to "position" myself as a stalker...BUT, that is RIDICULOUS........If you're playing in a venue like that, you DON'T park you car and walk in....sorry man, that is right out of Marketing 101.....
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Post by mjnaleva on Jul 12, 2011 10:58:40 GMT -5
I think there are some valid ideas being proposed here. The question I always wonder is "where does one go to get these ideas heard?" Does anyone.... AVP, USAV, NVL, etc.... ever actively solicit ideas from people? I've never seen it. Has anyone?
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Post by tinman2 on Jul 12, 2011 12:28:11 GMT -5
Currently "pro" beach volleyball leagues can not even afford to pay their best athletes a decent wage. You really think they can afford valet parking? The NFL and NBA don't even provide that. As for not knowing the players, I understand your frustration, but it's really not hard to figure it out if you listen and pay attention. Same thing for the scoreboard. If you can't see it, move....or ask. Do you really think they can afford multiple score boards so YOU can sit anywhere and see them? Really?
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Post by volleyballjim on Jul 12, 2011 12:42:12 GMT -5
tinman: I don't think Beach Volleyball can afford anything any more than Enron can.
BUT, I think there are MANY creative ways beach volleyball live events can improve their processes.
You can look at the big stuff: No TV money, no tour, but sometimes its the small things....
For a small example, I do not think that the scoring at courts, done the way the AVP didit is acceptable. Nor would it take a lot of money/resources to change....idea: Have the ref yell the score out periodically (if you ask him, he'll tell you, which I did often, why not share to the audience); Ask for volunteers to replicate the score on the master board in one corner so the rest of the field can see with a $25 scoreboard (I offer to buy the first one for court #2 in Manhattan).
Did we need a Jumbotron when the scoreboards throughout the tourney were sub-par?
My premise is just to identify the problems of an event, sort, organize and prioritize them and cut some stuff out and remedy others with "entitlement" solutions (stuff you can do with the existing resources at hand).
Its like going to a store and somethings not labeled with a price; if you can't get the price up, stick a yellow stick'em on it until you can.....don't just leave it unpriced....
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digit
Sophomore
Posts: 132
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Post by digit on Jul 12, 2011 20:30:41 GMT -5
Enthusiasm for the sport is great. However, it is not the players it is the “event” that paves the way for increased popularity and player payout. Site selection and sponsor participation is key to success. The evolution for success takes place far in advance of the event. Sites like Baltimore, Long Beach, Miami, Virginia Beach, etc. all were on the lists of worst case scenarios. Why, the people in the area have too many other events or opportunities for the weekend. Some basically just lack interest in this type of type of event. “STARS” The players ran the sport into the ground thinking they were important and the analogy of players parking their own cars is significant. Basically, they have not earned the depth of respect from the general population necessary to have “valet parking”. Hide in the player’s tent, not provide a means to mingle before, during or after the event is a death wish. Close the gates to the finals and avoid sites in the summer because you want to charge admission seriously reduces the popularity of the sport. Without a doubt the sport does not provide much interest on television and certainly TV does not show how much athleticism is necessary. Add to the mix few related products. One should always keep in mind the “event” far outweighs who wins or loses to the general population. They pay the bills. Digit
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Post by volleyballjim on Jul 13, 2011 14:09:53 GMT -5
I think the idea of “knowing” what works with Beach Volleyball in the USA is a skewed process. I’m not sure it ever “worked” in the US but then that depends on one’s definition of “working”. It’s the greatest sport, but nobody plays it It’s the best fan venue, but they went BELLY UP There are so many peripheral problems as well as core ones, I think it’s great content for volleytalk venues to post, but for analytic outcomes, we may have to wait a decade, before US Beach reinvents itself and repeats the errors of the past (we hope that won’t happen, but a “sponsor-driven” tour is likely to fall to that). I think any sport is based on knowing players. I may be wrong, as I have NO sports background, but once I watched our SF Giants in the playoffs and World Series last year, I had to start watching again after a long hiatus from the sport (I followed since 1958!)…Once you know the players, you gravitate to where they are, what they are doing, without that entity, the sport is “in the ether” and not something tangible. My reference to Todd & Phil parking on the side streets of Huntington was just to show how they are “treated”. No big deal, they probably don’t even want valet parking, but if you want to differentiate players from fans, less access to them (but better marketing of them) might get the demand rising. Who knows…I just thought, geezz these are the Olympic Gold Medalists who are the stars of this HUGE show down at the beach and they drive in on their own? I’ll learn, but I’ll volunteer to pick them up and drive them next year (LOL). Closing the gates to the finals and not wanting to charge for the venue reduces the popularity of the sport? I think we’re on to something here…I disagree though…Bill Veck, of Chicago baseball fame said: “Nothing sells tickets like the scarcity of tickets”. When Candlestick park had 60K seats, they were never filled except 3 or 4 times a year…move to AT&T Park at a more manageable 45K or so: SOLD OUT. OK, yes, it’s a new venue, but something can be said for a smaller stadium where seats are at a premium.
People blame the clerk at Walgreen, but they just work in a system created by others that cause the problem at the checkstand, just as the AVP created something that, evidently, led the pro’s to the “players tent”… Hey, if I was getting free food & massages, well, I think you catch my drift… 50% of the US population is shy. Volleyball players are also prone to that social phobia so YES, if they can, they will avoid interactions…some thrive by it, others cringe….. I agree that, currently, the event outweighs the winner/loser, but that is relative to a national tour that has failed. I do not see that the case from previous posts about attendance whereas they corroborate that if the event is in Poland and Poland plays, attendance goes through the roof.
In summary, I have NO IDEA what is wrong with this National scene in the US and I’ve been to AVP events and watched “closely” talking with Jason Hodell, the guy from Dig magazine with a lousy location for his tent, and watched the ingress/egress issues and ticket sales take place from a semi-analytical perspective. I know that, from a fans view, a lot of minor changes could build the sport from the ground up, but too many people look for revolutionary ideas rather than evolutionary ones.
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Post by johnbar on Jul 13, 2011 16:39:45 GMT -5
Enthusiasm for the sport is great. However, it is not the players it is the “event” that paves the way for increased popularity and player payout. ... We're out of luck. NBC cancelled "The Event".
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Post by tinman2 on Jul 13, 2011 21:23:10 GMT -5
VolleyballJim, Were you known as Arsenal in a prior message board life?
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Post by volleyballjim on Jul 14, 2011 1:34:41 GMT -5
tinman: No, my first ever board like this....Love the beach (I play daily in Campbell & Santa Cruz)....sad to see state of affairs in this sport...
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