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Post by chipNdink on Oct 16, 2011 10:48:04 GMT -5
I mistakenly assumed Coach Cook received a yellow card, and even though I did not initially criticize him for that, I did criticize fans who defended him blowing off an interview and receiving a yellow card. Turns out he did not receive the yellow card, and I have already apologized for assuming he did.
However, an interesting discussion ensued regarding conduct, and just how serious a yellow yard should be interpreted in volleyball. I'm creating a separate thread on this issue, so as not to hijack the other thread any further.
Some people believe a yellow card should be taken less seriously, and perhaps even given out more frequently (perhaps like in soccer), and merely serving as a verbal warning. They consider the conduct and behavior in volleyball overly nice and wouldn't mind it being lowered to the levels seen in other sports like basketball, baseball, or whatever.
I disagree. I for one, like the higher level of conduct in volleyball, and do NOT want it lowered to the levels seen in other sports. In fact, I would prefer the level of conduct in other sports be raised to the level in volleyball instead. I believe verbal warnings should remain just what they are, verbal warnings; and a yellow card retain it's serious nature of only being used when coaches or players refuse to stop their behavior even AFTER being given a verbal warning.
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Post by sevb on Oct 16, 2011 10:54:41 GMT -5
NCAA yellow card typically means "I hear you coach - now please shut up"
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Post by chipNdink on Oct 16, 2011 11:00:33 GMT -5
No, usually a ref will tell the coach to please shut up first, albeit in a more polite fashion, such as saying or indicating no more discussion allowed, I'm ready to re-start play. Only after the coach refuses to shut up after being told to do so, is a yellow card given.
No ref would have a discussion with the coach, then without any warning, give the coach a yellow card as the first indication the ref no longer wishes to talk to the coach.
It's precisely because some people WANT to turn yellow cards into the first warning to shut up, leading to watering down the seriousness of a yellow card and encouraging it being given out more frequently that has led to the subject being discussed in this thread.
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Post by redincolorado on Oct 16, 2011 11:19:25 GMT -5
well this match will be aired on a tape delay basis Monday evening on the BTN. It will be interesting to see if they show this incident or if it's edited out.
A yellow card in volleyball seems about the same as sideline warning in football. No harm, no foul but you'd better cease and desist.
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Post by chipNdink on Oct 16, 2011 11:28:23 GMT -5
No, a yellow card is more serious than that, because the next level is a red card penalty that depending upon when it occurs (if at set point, or match point) could actually cause one team to immediately lose the set or entire match. The next level after a sideline warning in football, would still at most only result in a penalty and some yardage lost, but doubt it would lead to one team losing without even having another play run.
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Post by gobigred on Oct 16, 2011 11:28:40 GMT -5
What's the use of a yellow card "retaining it's serious nature" if there is no consequence? By using a yellow card to more often replace a verbal warning, then it actually has teeth because once the coach gets his or her first yellow, their conduct should improve.
For example, if you give a coach x number of verbal warnings, they will continue to behave the same. But if you instead give them one verbal warning and replace your 2nd verbal with a yellow card, they risk continuing their same behavior.
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Post by redincolorado on Oct 16, 2011 11:28:52 GMT -5
From the NCAA rules: 6.1.2.1 Warning–For minor unsporting offenses such as inappropriately addressing opponents, spectators or officials, shouting or disrupting the conduct of the set, a warning (individual yellow card) is issued and is recorded on the scoresheet. A second minor offense during the same set by the same team member results in a penalty (individual red card). www.volleyball.com/rules/Volleyball-Rules-09.pdf |
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Post by gobigred on Oct 16, 2011 11:40:43 GMT -5
I just read section 6.1.4. Disruptive Coaching. I'm pretty sure the majority of those things happen at every volleyball match and only very few times do you see coaches get sanctioned.
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Post by chipNdink on Oct 16, 2011 11:41:59 GMT -5
That's why a yellow card IS a serious warning, and is used as the LAST warning to shut up, not the first warning to shut up. Unlike this rare occasion where the winning side in a lopsided 17-9 game receives a yellow card, yellow cards are usually given when coaches are in an intense game where even the slightest close call by a ref could potentially throw the game for one side or another. In such a situation, it can be understandable for a coach to fight for his team and want to argue till he's blue in the face because he knows just how important that point was; so the ref giving him a yellow card is the LAST warning to shut up, because the very next warning will be a red card penalty that may very well likely cause his team to lose that game without even getting to play another point.
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Post by Keystonekid on Oct 16, 2011 11:45:28 GMT -5
No, a yellow card is more serious than that, because the next level is a red card penalty that depending upon when it occurs (if at set point, or match point) could actually cause one team to immediately lose the set or entire match. The next level after a sideline warning in football, would still at most only result in a penalty and some yardage lost, but doubt it would lead to one team losing without even having another play run. A yellow card is more than nothing, but no way as serious as you make it. It almost always serves it purpose, which as a poster said, means, "thats enough coach, were not delaying play on judgement calls. The yellow card was a bench yellow card on an assistant, ref's will take a little chirping from head coaches, they arent taking any from an assistant, and thats just the way it is. Evidently an assistant was giving an earful to a line judge, also something not going to be tolerated. You should stop at, I apologize for accusing someone of something they didnt do. The fact youre so quick to criticize probably ought to tell you something. |
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Post by chipNdink on Oct 16, 2011 11:50:10 GMT -5
... You should stop at, I apologize for accusing someone of something they didnt do. The fact youre so quick to criticize probably ought to tell you something. Who's quick to criticize? I did NOT criticize Cook when someone mistakenly said he received a yellow card. I only criticized fans who defended him GETTING a yellow card. I apologized for mistakenly believing Cook received the yellow card. I do NOT apologize for criticizing fans who think GETTING a yellow card is no big deal. |
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Post by Keystonekid on Oct 16, 2011 12:24:20 GMT -5
... You should stop at, I apologize for accusing someone of something they didnt do. The fact youre so quick to criticize probably ought to tell you something. Who's quick to criticize? I did NOT criticize Cook when someone mistakenly said he received a yellow card. I only criticized fans who defended him GETTING a yellow card. I apologized for mistakenly believing Cook received the yellow card. I do NOT apologize for criticizing fans who think GETTING a yellow card is no big deal. Is it a big deal? Is a team, player, coach penalized in any way? As ive said its somewhere between nothing and unbelievably less serious than you are trying to make it. I do appreciate you apologizing for being in error. Its refreshing. |
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Post by spalding on Oct 16, 2011 12:45:05 GMT -5
More coaches should get yellow cards. It is entertaining especially in front of 5,000 fans. It takes the intensity of the match up a notch. In the Minn/Neb match, it is fairly obvious that the coaching staff and the players from Minn could not match the intensity of Neb even though it was in their house in front of their huge crowd. Kudos to Cook and his his players for raising their intensity to a whole new level being after being down 2 sets to none on the road. That is hard to do. I don't think another team did it this weekend. If a yellow card gets pulled out during the intensity, so be it. This isn't rec league.
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Post by abugslife on Oct 16, 2011 12:45:24 GMT -5
No, a yellow card is more serious than that, because the next level is a red card penalty that depending upon when it occurs (if at set point, or match point) could actually cause one team to immediately lose the set or entire match. The next level after a sideline warning in football, would still at most only result in a penalty and some yardage lost, but doubt it would lead to one team losing without even having another play run. A yellow card is more than nothing, but no way as serious as you make it. It almost always serves it purpose, which as a poster said, means, "thats enough coach, were not delaying play on judgement calls. The yellow card was a bench yellow card on an assistant, ref's will take a little chirping from head coaches, they arent taking any from an assistant, and thats just the way it is. Evidently an assistant was giving an earful to a line judge, also something not going to be tolerated. You should stop at, I apologize for accusing someone of something they didnt do. The fact youre so quick to criticize probably ought to tell you something. Yep I agree with KK and a yellow card can be given before a verbal warning depending on how bad the person getting is chirping. A coach can really only argue interpretation, judgement calls cannot be argued at all and honestly is just gets annoying because the coach keeps going and going but doesn't understand nothing will change the double call. |
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Post by chipNdink on Oct 16, 2011 12:46:35 GMT -5
Who's quick to criticize? I did NOT criticize Cook when someone mistakenly said he received a yellow card. I only criticized fans who defended him GETTING a yellow card. I apologized for mistakenly believing Cook received the yellow card. I do NOT apologize for criticizing fans who think GETTING a yellow card is no big deal. Is it a big deal? Is a team, player, coach penalized in any way? As ive said its somewhere between nothing and unbelievably less serious than you are trying to make it. I do appreciate you apologizing for being in error. Its refreshing. Well, it certainly was no big deal in this case, because the game was a lopsided 17-9. I must say, I have never ever seen the winning side in such a lopsided game get a yellow card before, until now. In general however, as I've said previously, yellow card situations usually occur under very intense situations where even one point given to one side or another can determine the outcome of a set or the match even. Refs know not to carelessly give out yellow cards, because the next step red card could very well determine the outcome of a game, which refs absolutely do not want to do. A good ref, knowing that, would then apply that conservative, safe policy throughout the match to be fair and unbiased. A ref that applies yellow cards at different behavior levels at different times or situations in a match would not be unbiased nor fair. |
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