Hans had ideas that were more progressive than the old guard... Moving the AVP towards a system more similar to the FIVB and ATP. This system, using individual promotors, seems like a much more viable option moving forward. Perhaps Hans didn't have enough pull for such drastic changes in the past, but I still believe this idea is solid moving forward. I hope Hans can follow through with atleast part of this model and be the promotor of a future event. Good luck Hans.
digit: Forgetting your dislike or distrust of Hans... How do you feel about this model? If it is executed correctly do you think it can work?
Thats not a new model. Its an idea that has been around for years. Its workable but has a lot of problems as well. What if there is no viable promoter in a spot with a ton of potential? What if a promoter goes under or fails to pay the players? How do national sponsors interact with each promoter and event? and about a million others.
Recruiting local event partners is not a new model for the AVP. They tried for years to get local promoters or municipalities to "partner" with the tour. The partnerships usually didn't last more that a year. Getting local sponsors to support the event, when the national sponsors got most of the sponsor assets, didn't work. The AVP office kept total control and in most cases overspent so much, that the local "partner" was faced with a losing financial model.
Hey Guest, how much have you invested? What are your brilliant ideas? Why don't you buy it and take over since you obviously have the cure? Who would you have running it? What's you're cure Dr Guest?
You dont have to know the solution to know what wont work. That said here are a few ideas that can contribute
To start with the AVP should disregard most of the players. Thats right I said it. Since the inception of the AVP in 1983 or whenever it was the majority of players have been overpaid.
Here are the players people paid to see in the early days: Sinjin/Stoklo, Hov/Dodd and Karch. Those guys should have been on salary and the remainder should have been competing for a much smaller prize pool.
I was a huge Leif Hansen fan back in the day but as an economic commodity he added nothing to the tour. No fans came to see him and the AVP didnt make dollar one from him that they wouldnt have made from whoever the additional player who would have played if Leif retired at 22.
Take today. Should the AVP struggle to pay out enough money that Jesse Rambis can afford to finish 17th in New Jersey or just fill out the lower levels with top regional players like Hudson Bates/Mark Burik. Is Jesse a better player? Absolutely. Can the majority of fans attending (who wouldnt go to any local AVP event) know or care? No. Get Todd/Phil, Misty/Kerri and a few others on salary and slash the rest of the expenses (I think Karch once had a deal like this)
Thats how I would start. Second I would build sites that have had success in the past, Milwaukee, Chicago, Ohio, one or two in Socal but not many. A 15 event tour should work fine.
The sponsorship money will come, it always has, the question is spending it responsibly. The AVP was a 4 million tour at one point. Wouldnt we all be better off now if it had saved a million and been a three million dollar tour? Was it really important that Anjinho could raise kids on a seventh place finish?
Holy crap....Guest and I agree...mark it down, and it's not even 4-20.....wow....o.k., now that we are on the same page - my outline that was distributed to no one went like this.....you already have "featured events" - Manhattan, MotherLoad - yes, I said Motherload - as examples (EXAMPLES PEOPLE) - you then take the top tour stops - Chicago, Chincy Natti, Hermosa it pains me Belmar or Jersey shore....throw in Cuervo Sponsorship for 3 events - make these events if possible stops like somewhere in Florida, maybe Texas or Arizona....design it so it's not east coast, west coast, mid west, east coast, west coast - that scheduling does not work as it is way to expensive.
So, what do I have so far, about 9 events....can easily find 5 or 6 more stops - but choose where the turnout will be good and fan base can be built.
Next, Live internet video streaming - it can be done, fairly cheaply, have it on main and couple outer courts, charge us loosers at home for it - I'd watch it and pay some change for it, offer daily and "entire tourney" pricing. Sounds silly, but might just work.
Next, put the big names on a year to year contractual basis and even see if some of the bigger older names would make appearances for free (yeah, let's see how much they give back to the game) or nominal appearance fee and put on a little dog and pony show....Karch and Sinjin versus Stoky and Lewis....people will come out to see the "names" - who are these Jesse Rambis, Hudson Bates and Leif Hansen's you speak of?
O.k. haters, just bring it - Skin to Win....bikini contests. If you tell a guy who has never touched a volleyball in his life that there is going to be a bikini contest somewhere he will come, and gladly pay $10 or $15 entrance fee to see...men are weak like that, at least I am....
Set expectations properly of the players - "Guys/Gals - here is the truth, unless you are really good, which means top 4 or 5, you are not going to make a living playing pro beach volleyball. Don't expect to become a millionaire, a hundred thousand dollar aire, but you can earn some extra coin while you figure out what you are going to do with your life once mom and dad kick you out of the basement, or until the real estate market turns good again."
The AVP will fail again unless it is somehow set up like FIBA.
Only if players are expecting to make a living off of winnings - by that I mean players outside of the top ten are not going to be bringing home enough dough to support wife and kids, next eliminate top heavy salaries....what was Dodd making at the end, anyone remember? $150K or something....streamline employment, cap expenditures....I think it could survive, but again I'm thinking expectations need to fall in line with it....you can't drive a ferrari and live in an Ocean Front estate if you make $25K per year....
Unrated, gr8ful, bigfan: finally some who understand - Let me provide answers to comments one at a time: Jbar- the magic word is attempt as in attempt to go beyond their IQ level. I thought it was obvious. Jim- vbjim. You have no idea what the Shamrock deal was or could have been you are a 60 year old guy playing cut a dink volleyball. Why bring up heresay - driving over the hill is making you light headed. If the Shamrock deal was so viable they would have come back when AVP ship was sinking. You live in volleyball wilderness - Silicon Valley. Vb I do not dislike any of the cast of characters from the past or present. All appear to be poor business people or reaching way beyond their level of expertise, financial worth, etc..
Han’s idea: Develop sites with individual promoters/sponsorship willing to continuously develop their local market. This was the original model and was taken directly from Women’s PRO Tennis. He obviously is not bringing enough to the table to interest anyone.
Mix in the “help or include the players” position of ALB and you have another real life disaster. Nobody has a tournament at Zuma, etc. . Realize many players have obtained a thought pattern that the promoters owe them a living. ALB the players will suck you dry, bitch and moan that it is never enough. Tell them to go back to school and get a degree in common sense, the players are just performers in the circus.
Most fans forget it is not volleyball that makes for a great event. In today’s world toys at the beach jump start attendance – volleyball is no longer a standalone premier event. It is the “EVENT ON THE BEACH” held once a year at a given location driving people to come back to that site the same time each year to have a good time backed up with sponsorship. In my humble opinion there is only one group of sponsors that makes this work long term: The beverage guys. They are everywhere on a daily basis. I don’t care if you are in Siesta Keys, Tampa, Chicago, San Diego, SOCAL, etc. those guys can make an event happen. Tie in their radio exposure, etc. and they can make any town rock for a weekend. Everybody goes to the grocery store, bar, liquor store, etc. Just in passing - I am not including Mr. Sun's new adventure in any manner - - more power to him for taking on such a huge task. DIGIT
Nicely typed, digit. I just like everyone this week.
Specifically, the 'good intentions and planning are not enough' part. Takes juice to get stuff done. Juice is a not-clever metaphor for large sums of money, in case anyone didn't know that.
Also agreed on the beverage guys.. from bud light back in the day to cuervo currently... great track record of sticking with an event and making it happen. I'm still dreaming of a big tech/oil/car/camera sponsor, but not holding my breath.
Recurring local events are the foundation of the sport. Connecting those events with a common brand, ranking system, and path to a 'championship' is what would make it great.
Post by volleyballjim on Apr 25, 2012 11:15:53 GMT -5
digit….Sorry about the heresy on the Shamrock deal but if you had applied your knowledge of facts on the issue to the post, rather than a comparative critique of its later failure to be presented at the demise of the AVP, which no conclusion could appropriately be drawn, we might, in our volleyball deprived valley of hearts delight locale (SJC), understood where Armato positioned the corporation. I DID refer to my Shamrock info as “according to the info I’ve seen”, which is not a resolute conclusion.
You ask “why bring up heresy”, well this heresy in question wasn’t any more well received than when I posted 10 days before it was final, the sale of the AVP, which solicited similar “critique”, only to be true 10 days hence. So, you post stuff to get to the real stuff, which your post, “omitted”.
Since you resorted to using VT demographics to “60 year old guy playing dink volleyball”, I would question your “female” VT entry and say “really”? Your content and charged nature is inconsistent with that gender.
Anyway, I’ll leave you with this George Washington Carver quote that you can place in your bathroom: How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant of the weak and the strong-because someday you will have been all of these…
digit…....................I’ll leave you with this George Washington Carver quote that you can place in your bathroom: How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant of the weak and the strong-because someday you will have been all of these…