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Post by beachvolleymike on Jun 28, 2012 22:13:02 GMT -5
I was at the MBO when they switched it to sideout on the big court. The different format was great...entirely different game. Get rid of the 7' giants for a weekend. I bet the old timers would love it, too.
I am disappointed not to see a King of the Beach event. DSun might as well throw one of those in the mix.
I still get a bad taste in my mouth when the AVP calls a tournament the "championships". I guess with $225k they can call it whatever the hell they want. I bet Todd will look twice at that amount and think about having a last good payday with the beast before retiring.
Sent from my MB860 using ProBoards
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Post by austintatious on Jun 28, 2012 22:42:40 GMT -5
SHOW ME THE MONEY and I will believe. Until then - same ole same ole.
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Post by klazk on Jun 29, 2012 9:00:59 GMT -5
Some interesting ideas, but color me skeptical. Announcing $400,000 in prize money before (as Sun admitted in the interview) having a sponsor(s) to actually put up the $400,000? Risky. SHOW ME THE MONEY and I will believe. Until then - same ole same ole. +1 on this. I had this exact thoughts when I saw about 50 retweets by the AVP of different people saying "AVP is back!" I'll believe it when the events actually happen and the promised prize money is actually received by the players. Not one week, not one day, not even one hour before. Cynical? Yup. Tough on a new owner who apparently has his heart in the right place. Yup. But he knew what he was buying. He better come through on this first promise or he will have dug the AVP into an even bigger hole (and I didn't think that was possible). I honestly hope he comes through. But if he doesn't, that announcement was an incredibly stupid mistake for a supposedly smart business person.
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Post by ronnielott on Jun 29, 2012 12:00:05 GMT -5
Some interesting ideas, but color me skeptical. Announcing $400,000 in prize money before (as Sun admitted in the interview) having a sponsor(s) to actually put up the $400,000? Risky. SHOW ME THE MONEY and I will believe. Until then - same ole same ole. +1 on this. I had this exact thoughts when I saw about 50 retweets by the AVP of different people saying "AVP is back!" I'll believe it when the events actually happen and the promised prize money is actually received by the players. Not one week, not one day, not even one hour before. Cynical? Yup. Tough on a new owner who apparently has his heart in the right place. Yup. But he knew what he was buying. He better come through on this first promise or he will have dug the AVP into an even bigger hole (and I didn't think that was possible). I honestly hope he comes through. But if he doesn't, that announcement was an incredibly stupid mistake for a supposedly smart business person. I think most all of us at this point are thinking the same thing you are here klzk. I mean, how can we not? The AVP has been nothing short of disaster the last two years with their quotes and claims. I guess all we can do is hope, though. But none of us would be surprised in the least bit if DSun's latest claims came up short...
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Post by volleyballjim on Jun 29, 2012 12:20:59 GMT -5
OK skeptics? You're in Vegas & the line is set: WILL THE AVP be apx 400K and two events happen....No, I'll believe it when I see it.....BETS NOW: I'm in (can I get a receipt?)......IF you think Donald Sun is just the 2nd coming of last years single tourney, VERY limited field, yada, yada.......Yes, I didn't think so....Remember, you don't pay ANYTHING for a brand/product you're not going to do anything with.....Business 101, re-read Chapter 1......Game ON.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 29, 2012 12:51:45 GMT -5
Some interesting ideas, but color me skeptical. Announcing $400,000 in prize money before (as Sun admitted in the interview) having a sponsor(s) to actually put up the $400,000? Risky. SHOW ME THE MONEY and I will believe. Until then - same ole same ole. +1 on this. I had this exact thoughts when I saw about 50 retweets by the AVP of different people saying "AVP is back!" I'll believe it when the events actually happen and the promised prize money is actually received by the players. Not one week, not one day, not even one hour before. Cynical? Yup. Tough on a new owner who apparently has his heart in the right place. Yup. But he knew what he was buying. He better come through on this first promise or he will have dug the AVP into an even bigger hole (and I didn't think that was possible). I honestly hope he comes through. But if he doesn't, that announcement was an incredibly stupid mistake for a supposedly smart business person. Agree entirely but even if he gets it, spending 400,000 on two tournaments is just dumb
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Post by Semp12 on Jun 29, 2012 15:16:47 GMT -5
What was the original promise of last years 1 AVP "Championship" Event? Several hundreds of thousands of dollars I believe?
If they actually follow through this year with the two events at that amount, great. If they end up taking it back and knocking the money down, then shame on them for wrecking whatever credibility the new owner may have given them. I see it as cheap advertising for now.
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Post by acemand23 on Jun 29, 2012 15:19:21 GMT -5
Trying to establish the AVP as a tour that offer different flavors of volleyball (old school vs new rules) is a bad idea. Professional sports are played with one set of rules (Baseball, Football, Basketball, Tennis, Golf....). If you want to have spin off series of other flavors for fun, great, just don't make it harder for new fans to follow a sport and understand who the top players are. You dont want to get into a situation where, for instance, we market Phil and Todd as best in the world, but when they battle on a big court with old rules they lose to a typical 50 seed. maybe 5 years down the road, but in the first couple re-build years, we need to establish a sound set of rules and stucture ...
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Post by mjnaleva on Jul 1, 2012 8:50:00 GMT -5
On a related note, since this is a team sport, it might be better served to follow the model used by most other team-based sports which means cities have a team. People tend to get more into team sports if they're rooting for their "hometown" team. It may seem like a wild idea because it's never been pursued in this sport, ... Seems like the EVP (not a top tier tour) does try to do this. But BVB is not like football or baseball, where events are one team vs. one other team. Then you're playing half of your events at home, and you can expect to build a following. A BVB event typically has 32 teams; but there may be only 12 events in the season. Hard to play one in every team's home town. And then there is the concentration in SoCal. And the partner switching, which is inevitable. The reason I bring up the team concept is that part of it implies having a network of "owners" for each of the teams which means players get basically recruited/drafted with a salary. It would create some stability for players and would probably increase the numbers who would think seriously about being a pro in the sport.. not to mention create an environment I think media and merchandisers are just more inclined to seize on which in turn helps a broader base of fans to follow the sport more closely. Just like any other team sport, having your hometown as Manhattan Beach for example doesn't mean you play for a team in that area. I also feel that people don't have the attention span to go to a volleyball tournament. Instead, a concentrated event (think Davis Cup format in Tennis where it's a best of 5 matches format as an example) that lasts a few hours at most at a time is a better draw. Again, this model works if a permanent venue system can be developed which in some regards already exists if you know the spots. This in my mind if "outside the box" thinking which can really lead to long term prosperity of the sport.
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Post by johnbar on Jul 1, 2012 14:52:33 GMT -5
I also feel that people don't have the attention span to go to a volleyball tournament. Instead, a concentrated event (think Davis Cup format in Tennis where it's a best of 5 matches format as an example) that lasts a few hours at most at a time is a better draw. Again, this model works if a permanent venue system can be developed which in some regards already exists if you know the spots. This in my mind if "outside the box" thinking which can really lead to long term prosperity of the sport. Well, that's an interesting idea. But that format doesn't actually interest me personally that much. I want to see a field of 32 teams (and qualifiers). I want to see the up-and-comers. Perhaps the tour could have both types of events somehow. OTOH, indoor VB leagues, with city teams, set venues, etc., has never caught on in the US. Could beach VB do better?
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jul 2, 2012 8:39:41 GMT -5
I'm intrigued by the "team" concept. I think there are some natural rivalries to a degree already established on the beach. the different beaches that are represented in the California tournaments is clearly evident. There is the east coast vs. west coast as well. It reminds me a bit of NASCAR, cars race individually, but belong a "team" of drivers under a main owner, and then there are the solo drivers/ qualifiers. I think I could put a group of people from Orlando together to be an "owner"! $10k buy in per owner/franchise gets 2 main entry teams, and 4 qualifier teams. THAT could be fun!
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jul 2, 2012 8:44:07 GMT -5
Just thinking about this more. You could have a Franchise cup, based on cumulative team finishes. Plus, with the owner buy ins, if each owner is given 2 main draw teams, that would 12 owners, getting to the 24 main entries. 12 x $10k buy in = 120k of funds to the tour.
Have a draft every year??
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Post by mjnaleva on Jul 3, 2012 9:13:16 GMT -5
Just an FYI. I submitted the basis of this "team-based" model to AVP. Not sure when/if they will reply or even consider. But it's an idea that if done well would probably result in resources being pulled together thus creating a more unified approach to the game. Someone looking to have some sense of ownership in pro beach volleyball should naturally want to be an owner/partner and it's at a level that's probably much more manageable than say 'Start your own tour', which seems to be what various groups end up trying.
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digit
Sophomore
Posts: 132
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Post by digit on Jul 4, 2012 16:02:50 GMT -5
I cannot imagine forming teams with the cast of characters that volleyball has produced. Give me a break it is a dead loser. Unlike other sports that require major outlays for engines, training, equipment, Pro Beach Volleyball does not really require any of these items, therefore the players are truly independent contractors. Most with an attitude of "what is it going to benefit me", not a team or league effort. Finding investors would be a major task. Digit
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Post by volleyballjim on Jul 4, 2012 17:33:44 GMT -5
re digit comment on SAnta Barbara: I was nodding agreement and went back to my photos from 2008 Santa Barbara.....STANDS PACKED, 3 levels behind the service line and I would be interested in attendance levels, obviously not Manhattan/Hermosa, but THIS AIN'T no F-L-A......I think there is a possibility that Santa Barbara does well with a reinvigorated AVP.....Hope springs eternal....
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