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Post by planetasia01 on Apr 14, 2014 0:05:51 GMT -5
If I want my kids to be true ballers, forget club here in the US.... send them to Thailand!
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Post by toomuchvb on Apr 14, 2014 8:55:23 GMT -5
Impressive, isn't it?!
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Post by bighitter on Apr 14, 2014 9:16:57 GMT -5
I'd say we are doing things very well in the US. If basketball and football didn't take the top athletic talent in the US we'd have young teams just like you see in the posted video.
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Post by ja on Apr 14, 2014 9:31:41 GMT -5
This is not about us doing something wrong, it's about them doing better in popularizing volleyball! We need to bring volleyball to elementary and middle schools, like we have basketball, baseball/softball, soccer, swimming just to name few. We need USAV to be more aggressive in advertisement and our best players to be a household names! Without extensive and aggressive media campaign this is just impossible! As for the talent level and level of play on this video, come to A2/A3 camps for youth select and you will see plenty of that! Our young girls do know how to play!
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Post by vbman100 on Apr 14, 2014 9:35:39 GMT -5
Yes, I would say the 3 gold and a bronze in the last 8 Olympics for the men has shown that the US men/boys programs do things pretty well.
On the women's side, football IS taking a lot of the top athletic talent. And they probably do a lot of 'blocked' training. Boys don't like that as much. They prefer to play.
You would think with the thousands of clubs for girls and hundreds of thousands of girls participating, and college programs and scholarships, as opposed to opportunities for boys, the results would be flipped. Well, maybe in those other countries, women are into sports way more than boys?
Oops, I am starting to sound like John Kessel.
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Post by vbman100 on Apr 14, 2014 9:53:50 GMT -5
This is not about us doing something wrong, it's about them doing better in popularizing volleyball! We need to bring volleyball to elementary and middle schools, like we have basketball, baseball/softball, soccer, swimming just to name few. We need USAV to be more aggressive in advertisement and our best players to be a household names! Without extensive and aggressive media campaign this is just impossible! As for the talent level and level of play on this video, come to A2/A3 camps for youth select and you will see plenty of that! Our young girls do know how to play! Right on! Household names. Like 2 of those players from the women's USA basketball team in 2012...um, Griner, and.... or who was this year's Final Four MOP that just finished a week ago. Back to back MOPs, everyone knows her... And from the US soccer team...Alex Morgan and...um...is Mia Hamm still playing? Or that girl that took her shirt off, Chastain! And from the US softball team...wait, no softball in 2012 Olympics! But hey we all still remember Cat Osterman and Jennie Finch and many others, right! And 2 US female swimmers...Natalie Coughlin and...um... And Lolo Jones!And Gabby Douglas! And McKayla Maroney! She is not impressed by the USAV advertising. Who is A2/A3 affiliated with? Is that AAU? I wish USAV would do something like that to get more kids involved. Then they could put a video out to show Thailand how it's done!!!
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Post by gobears on Apr 14, 2014 9:55:37 GMT -5
Adults with kids, who play or played vball, AND any adults who are teachers at middle school and High school, should pull together a vball team among their students. The Bay Area has a CYO middle school vb league. My gdtr has been playing for 3 years...playing 4th grade, 5th, and 6th grade. Coaches get no pay. They are parents who are experienced vb players.
One is a very busy realtor who finds 3-5pm slot in her schedule to be coach 2,3 x a week.
Adults who played need to try and fit in coaching when their kids are in middle school. HSs around here public and private are adding boy's vb fast...plenty of HS girl's vb teams. And the community newspapers cover HS g/b vball weekly.
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Post by Phaedrus on Apr 14, 2014 10:01:46 GMT -5
You have to take into account the ethos of sports within each of these countries and how they train.
Mike Hebert has a nice chapter on identifying the national style of each country and then playing by that style.
The Asian countries understand that statistically, their athletes can not be a big or as physical as the western countries. Russia, on the other hand, understand that their athlete's best attribute is the physicality. These countries have made their national style the model for their national team of course, and also the theme for their feeders.
If you understand Matsudaira and Daihmatsu's training for the Japanese national teams in the 1960's and 1970's you will see tons and tons of technical work, lots of blocked training and lots of reps with very little playing involved.
The reason that those kind of training work in Japan is that volleyball is hugely popular in Japan, the mom's will play on teams and bring their babies along. These kids learn how to pepper at a very young age and, true to their style of play, are all about ball control in order to feed the intricacies of the speed game. Japan started using the quick ball and the playset to disrupt what was the dominant high ball offensive style.
The Japanese schools are also very different than ours, the kids in grade school are required to get involved in school sponsored programs for sports, the kid has to select a sport and they are required to go practice with their sport group for hours after school. they will do this for hours, doing the same drills and being so expert at those same drills because that is ALL they do. There sports training activities will sometimes not result in any playing at all. the kids end up NOT having played in even one match because there are just too many of them to give each one a chance at playing.
The reason it works in Japan is because the national ethos is all about the collective good, the emphasis is on sacrificing the self for the greater good of the many. While that is the agreed upon goals of team play, the culture of the rugged individual and the hero complex far dominates western ethos. The kind of subservience and sacrifice that the culture demands is something we can not replicate.
People like Rick Butler has made it work with SPRI, but I don't think too many people have attempted to do this in a massive scale without tweaking the cultural aspect of the Japanese training philosophy.
JVA had a DVD out that is a documentary of the trip that Rick Z and Tim hardt took to Japan about five years ago, it was very enlightening to see these kids train and do their reps, but that is all they did.
While the kids playing in the video are from Thailand and not Japan, I think the same kind of ethos permeates their training culture. And their kind of training is their only shot at getting their athletes the best chance at succeeding.
The Japanese mens national team was experimenting with Gary Sato and his philosophy on training, which is much more play oriented and much less dependent on coaching centered ethos than player centered ethos. It would have been a nice experiment to observe as he made headways into the very conservative Japanese system, but the Japanese pulled the plug way before Sato could have had any real impact on their national team.
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Post by vbcoachsouth on Apr 14, 2014 10:18:25 GMT -5
the kids in the video are not indicative of Thailand's volleyball as a whole, it is the very best players in the entire country in that age group....most of those kids likely started playing around 4-5 years old, similar to the stronger cultures around the U.S.: Chicago, Louisville, Dallas, L.A., etc...
if you were to put our best players vs their best players in each age group, it wouldn't be a contest
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 14, 2014 10:48:30 GMT -5
Volleyball in the USA would work so much better without the parents.
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Post by Murina on Apr 14, 2014 11:45:01 GMT -5
Ok, so lets give those Thai kids a basketball and see who can dribble and shoot. Or a soccer ball and see who can get a shot on goal or complete a pass to a teammate. They really are great at volleyball, and have a court sense that only comes with playing the game a tremendous amount. Do they have time for learning other sports at anything above a rudimentary level? Does being a great volleyball player at 11 years old have anything to do with being a good player at 20 years old?
Could some of those kids be missing out on a real career as a soccer player because they fully committed to being a volleyball player at 10 years old? Maybe they had a better chance at a long term or professional career in another sport?
I don't know, how do girls u11's at the AAU nationals compare?
While this is impressive, I'm not sure it is really all that beneficial to the kids (or even the sport) in the long term.
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Post by rockhopper on Apr 14, 2014 12:00:02 GMT -5
Volleyball in the USA would work so much better without the parents. Are you going to rent a van and pick them all up for practice and tournaments? Wash their uniforms? Pay for their club dues? Is this why we see so many orphans playing volleyball?
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Post by madonna on Apr 14, 2014 12:06:07 GMT -5
Anyone else noticed that about 90% of the time the hitters faced only one blocker?
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Post by vbman100 on Apr 14, 2014 12:15:46 GMT -5
At Girls AAUs in 2013:
10 and under - 1st and 2nd, and 6 of the top 8 teams were from Puerto Rico. 15 teams overall, 8 from PR.
11 and under - 1,2,3 and 6 of top 8 from PR. 45 teams entered overall.
12 Open - 3rd,5th, 4 of top 8 from PR. 25 teams overall.
Not sure what that all means, just putting the facts out there about results. There are also not a lot of US teams entering at 10s and 11s. So maybe OVA or Munciana or KIVA or whatever would win 10s, 11s if they had a team in there.
How are those kids from Japan and Thailand and Brazil playing so much? Aren't they getting burned out? Aren't they getting overuse injuries?
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Post by volleytology on Apr 14, 2014 12:21:32 GMT -5
If I want my kids to be true ballers, forget club here in the US.... send them to Thailand! Not sure why the fans, coaches, etc. in the US are always looking to other countries on "how to do volleyball" ? We have been pretty darn good at developing elite talent and winning major international competitions over the past 30 years. In fact, the men's success with it's incredibly small talent base is downright unbelievable. I think we're doing things just fine !
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