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Post by sevb on Sept 28, 2014 19:36:01 GMT -5
Play this for the board...
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Post by elbelle on Sept 28, 2014 19:38:41 GMT -5
First off, what good would bringing it to the school board do? The high school coach is obviously trying to create better players that can master basic volleyball skills. Underhand serving is not even a basic skill. The coach is not telling them to run a complex offense or to jump serve. This is beneficial to the kids in the long run.
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Post by anneracer on Sept 28, 2014 19:47:57 GMT -5
Well, you guys are just awesome! Perhaps I should clarify numbers and ages so you don't jump down my post about being an entitled parent with a spoiled kid. My child was in 5th grade, playing on a 7th grade team -- because they can't make numbers in a small town--and yet. This team has gone through a whole season with only TWO players able to overhand. They lost every game. Kids would CRY when it was their turn to serve... this is not just my daughter, but I have an interest because she and 4 others don't even want to try next year. And remember, this is the HIGH SCHOOL rule affecting the two middle school coaches. They've told me they would like the rule changed, but won't because the high school coach hires them. Not quite as clear as me being an overbearing bitch- SORRY!!!
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Post by elbelle on Sept 28, 2014 19:52:24 GMT -5
Well, you guys are just awesome! Perhaps I should clarify numbers and ages so you don't jump down my post about being an entitled parent with a spoiled kid. My child was in 5th grade, playing on a 7th grade team -- because they can't make numbers in a small town--and yet. This team has gone through a whole season with only TWO players able to overhand. They lost every game. Kids would CRY when it was their turn to serve... this is not just my daughter, but I have an interest because she and 4 others don't even want to try next year. And remember, this is the HIGH SCHOOL rule affecting the two middle school coaches. They've told me they would like the rule changed, but won't because the high school coach hires them. Not quite as clear as me being an overbearing bitch- SORRY!!! To be blunt… this is volleytalk. But I guess what is unclear is your end game? The high school coach gets fired?
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Post by anneracer on Sept 28, 2014 19:56:45 GMT -5
My end game is that the high school coach's arbitrary rule should not be imposed on the 7th and 8th grade coaches. I think they would continue pushing skills, but allow the girls to underhand if necessary in a game. I want them to have fun and stay in the game, not get scared off because they feel foolish at age 10.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Sept 28, 2014 20:04:23 GMT -5
If a team only has 2 players who can serve the ball over the net, I question the value in having them play formal matches. Wouldn't some more practice time worthwhile?
And if you've 5th graders playing on 7th grade teams, I don't think overhand serving is the reason they lost every game.
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Post by olefrog on Sept 28, 2014 20:12:38 GMT -5
When I started playing vollyball in Hermosa Beach 1939. Underhand was the only way ,we played side out to 15 and 7 zip was a skunk . I do not see a darn thing wrong with it ta ta ole frog
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Post by strikestwice on Sept 28, 2014 20:21:27 GMT -5
I think that both sides have an argument, underhand and overhand....and the truth is that there is no right answer really. My belief is that they girls should be encouraged to serve overhand, even if that means that they won't make it over the net, and that they will lose. But along with that, there also has to be communication between the coaches and the players as to why it is being done this way. In the game of life, no one is always successful and perfect, and you cannot always win......it's the truth. Over the long run, these girls are going to be far better off working through these things in a match, as long as she understands why. And then that moment when it clicks and they finally get that serve over the net, just think of the joy and happiness that she will have, and how excited all of her teammates will be for her. As a coach, I am constantly putting my kids into situations where I know that they are going to fail and not be successful, and stretching their comfort limits to try new things, and yes they get upset and frustrated because it doesn't always click. But when it finally does, they are much stronger for going through it. Do people always get multiplication or division right away in school? No, but nobody complains that the teachers keep making their kids work on that.
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Post by Not Me on Sept 28, 2014 20:22:34 GMT -5
And I'm sure the kids felt even better when the parents do nothing but complain about the rules in front of the kids.
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Post by hammer on Sept 28, 2014 20:32:30 GMT -5
I have used the sky ball underhand serve in 15-20 mph crosswinds/headwinds at Corona, Beer Can, Hermosa, etc. with good success. Works better under the right sun conditions (high in the sky) so non-glasssed opponents burn their eyeballs. Works even better when the opponent has had a few beers ... something about having to pay attention for a span of several seconds. Indoors it isn't very useful, because of those damn scoreboards they like to hang in the middle of the newer facilities. But maybe in a Final Four venue who knows. Theoretically, if you could consistently underhand a serve so it just barely clears the net nearly every time, that could be a winner. Can you still attack serves ... I haven't been following the latest rule changes?
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Post by donneyp on Sept 28, 2014 20:51:39 GMT -5
Please weigh in-- the high school volleyball coach/athletic director at a small school has banned all younger teams in the feeder middle school from serving underhand. In a tiny community, the ages of the girls on the 7th grade team were 6th graders, the ages of the 8th grade team were 7th graders. The 7th graders did not win a single game... as they were told they MUST serve overhand (and only 2 were mildly competent). Between losing all the games, watching the girls break down on the court, and reading frustration in many of the parents, I ask for your opinion. Is it beneficial to 10, 11, and 12 year olds who have not mastered the overhand serve, to mandate that they do it in game situations? The line the coaches feed the kids is, "we are supporting the high school team when we try overhand serves." I want to bring this to the principal/school board's attention, but I'd like some articles to cite-- if anyone has any leads! Thanks for responding- but just a tad more info- this is a tiny school in a small school bracket. The reason there are younger students on the teams is because the school grades don't have enough kids to field a team. I honestly agree that 9th and up should be overhand... but my focus and concern is 7th and 8th. I'm afraid this arbitrary rule will cause the kids who were excited to play to drop out! So if there IS research or a reason behind this rule, that's what I'm looking to the procommunity for. Again, thanks! Anne, let me make a few changes and see if you see the point some people are trying to make... Please weigh in-- the high school math teacher at a small school has banned all younger teams in the feeder middle school from using calculators In a tiny community, the ages of the girls on the 7th grade team were 6th graders, the ages of the 8th grade team were 7th graders. The 7th graders did not get a single problem right as they were told they MUST do math using their brains and only 2 were mildly competent. Between getting all of the problems wrong watching the girls break down in the classroom, and reading frustration in many of the parents, I ask for your opinion. Is it beneficial to 10, 11, and 12 year olds who cannot do math to mandate that they do math on tests without a calculator. The line the coaches feed the kids is, "we are supporting the high school team when we try overhand serves." I want to bring this to the principal/school board's attention, but I'd like some articles to cite-- if anyone has any leads! I honestly agree that 9th and up should be able to do math without a calculator but my focus and concern is 7th and 8th. I'm afraid this arbitrary rule will cause the kids who were excited about school to drop out! So if there IS research or a reason behind this rule, that's what I'm looking to the procommunity for. -------------------------- I hope that helps you see the other side here. And I'm sure someone will say "math is more important than serving" but we are a community of volleyball coaches and fans. Both skills are essential to a meaningful and productive life.
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Post by hapaguy on Sept 28, 2014 22:07:09 GMT -5
Its pretty ridiculous for them to "ban" underhand serving. Especially at that age. The girls should be practicing over hand serving but should be allowed to underhand serve in a match if they are not able to get it in overhand with a high percentage. One of my daughters was having trouble with her serve which was a hard line drive with a lot of top spin on it so it would go over the net and drop and she couldn't get it in. Either it would go in the net or go long. So her coach told her to serve underhand and she got two aces in a row! this was in a U16 match at JO's! Anyway, everyone laughed about it and she got out of her funk and started serving in after that. Gotta do whatever works.....
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Post by pogoball on Sept 28, 2014 22:16:59 GMT -5
This high school coach is not doing her/himself any favors. - I can pretty much guarantee that the girls are not learning to overhand serve correctly. They are instead developing an array of bad arm-swing habits that they may never unlearn. I would much rather work with girls with no arm-swing experience than those who have been incorrectly doing it for over a year. - The girls are not getting positive feedback on their results in matches. This negative feedback will discourage many from returning and will certainly filter into the rest of the school, discouraging most other girls from considering playing on the team.
In other words, the coach is creating unhappy players, discouraging players from participating and the players who do participate have such bad habits that may take years of good training to overcome, if ever.
I've seen first-hand how an ivory-tower edict can ruin a young team when the person making the edict does not follow up and observe the results first hand. You want them all to overhand serve? Okay, then spend the time to make sure your staff is educated correctly on how to teach it. Follow-up with your staff and genuinely listen to their honest feedback. Observe the teams play. Respect that the most important thing is for the kids to enjoy themselves and get excited about playing volleyball. Everything else is absolutely secondary.
Let me be clear: the most important thing in a middle school program is to create a positive rewarding environment that attracts and retains excited motivated players (and coaches and parents). Do that, and results will follow.
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Post by brickwall on Sept 28, 2014 23:31:54 GMT -5
Having actually coached girls 5th - 8th grade, very successful teams in a very small school district, I will say this. With proper technique, a girl who is 65 lbs and wears a children's size 7, can serve overhand. I had one serve 20 points in a row. bUT the truth is very few girls can serve overhand with success, it's coordination. I would much rather they learned how to play/volley than repeatedly serve it under the net. What are they learning is neither team can serve over the net? How to rotate?
My 5th grade team started with 3 of 11 serving overhand in 5th grade, 6 of 11 serving overhand in 6th grade, all of them in 7th grade, and 3 jump serving in 8th grade. The team also learned to win/ to compete, to put the good of the team above the good of themselves. Believe it or not, this all started with the serve and the idea of, I help my team most when I get my serve in, I will look less cool, but help my team more with this underhand serve. For the math analogy, how about you force 5th graders to do freshman algebra in 5th grade before giving them the tools to be able to do it correctly. Sure, a few gifted kids will be able to, the rest will fail. They will all hate math, and quit as soon as they are able.
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Post by donneyp on Sept 29, 2014 0:56:58 GMT -5
3 observations here. Just going to point out that several people have assumed the coaching is bad. The OP didn't address how they were training the serve. It didn't address the level of involvement or even awareness of the HS coach. There could be a lot of easy solutions. This could be as simple as asking the HS coach to bring the varsity team down for a day so the middle school kids get individual attention of a high school girl. I don't know the particulars but from the broad strokes I think going to the school board with this is silly. For anyone who thinks overhand serving as a skill is too advanced for 12-14 year olds, I offer this as evidence to the contrary. For the original poster I'll offer this link to do with what you choose. If nothing else, show your daughter something new to try and maybe she can be the 3rd player to serve over the net www.carolinaregionvb.org/overhandserves/
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