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Post by panicvb on Oct 16, 2014 10:28:53 GMT -5
Does anyone have any attendance figures for the pro leagues in:
Italy
Russia
Belgium
Germany
France
Turkey
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Post by aranhahunter on Oct 19, 2014 9:55:03 GMT -5
Not sure how it is in Europe, but in Brazil the men's superliga averages a paltry 1531 per game and a total attendance of 36750 for the first 24 games of the season. That's probably close to the complete season average. Women's attendance should be similar as well.
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Post by panicvb on Oct 19, 2014 13:39:59 GMT -5
Not sure how it is in Europe, but in Brazil the men's superliga averages a paltry 1531 per game and a total attendance of 36750 for the first 24 games of the season. That's probably close to the complete season average. Women's attendance should be similar as well. Thanks for that info. I've tried to find the info on the various league websites, tweeted players, asked clubs, asked leagues, this must be some very secret information. The Russian League is probably propped up by some oligarchs, and I'm fine with that. Italy - looks anywhere from 2,000 to 6,000. Belgium - looks much smaller, 1,000-2,5000. Finland - it is Finland, it cannot be very much. They don't draw much for soccer, not sure how they do in their hockey leagues. I don't have any videos to judge from Germany, France or Turkey, but guessing they are in the 1,000-4,000 range. |
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Post by aranhahunter on Oct 19, 2014 20:58:52 GMT -5
If you don't mind me asking, why are you doing that research?
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Post by panicvb on Oct 19, 2014 22:03:15 GMT -5
Just very curious. Attendance is reported in nearly every sporting event around the world, yet it is not easy to find this information.
How do they pay the player/coaches/equipment, travel costs with low attendance numbers?
One of the issues for the US pro volleyball potential is attendance - how do we have a professional league? But if these European clubs are doing it, then maybe it can be done on some level in the US.
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Post by aranhahunter on Oct 20, 2014 10:56:41 GMT -5
I don't think attendance is the end all/be all for a successful pro league. A pro men and women's VB attendance in the US would probably average those numbers (4K+, I mean most niche sports average 4K-10K in the US), however, those leagues probably have a big TV deal and/or big government backing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the US government spends any of its budget on professional sports whereas foreign countries do. So, the US is a little harder, however it's not as dire as it was before because ESPN is not the only sports channel in town. FS, NBCS, UniversalSports, Bein, as well as streaming options give a pro league in the US plenty of options. A 3-4 month regular season + playoffs that is played concurrently However, who would create such a league? There's something called Grand Prix Entertainment who is supposed to launch a men and women's pro indoor league in the US by 2018 and they are supposedly sanctioned by USA Volleyball: www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140501006977/en/Grand-Prix-Entertainment-%C2%A0USA-Volleyball-Launch-U.S.#.VEUvAfnF-YsI don't necessarily agree with the cities chosen, but maybe you could email Doug Beal and other point of contacts (contact info on the page) and see if this league is really happening. |
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Post by panicvb on Oct 20, 2014 11:10:23 GMT -5
Thanks for that link.
You are right, the US doesn't subsidize sports, well the NFL gets some special deals, but in general they get help via arena/stadium deals.
4k - I think that is a big number, 2,500 may be doable.
Does Italy's government prop up their league? Belgium? I had no idea.
What I would do is start a regional league. The Northeast is probably the best area because of economics, growth of the sport, and ease of travel. Play in the fall - when the gyms are not being used for basketball, start in August- end in November. Use the local volleyball clubs/high school teams, colleges to develop a player base and use the hometown v hometown affinity. "Your local team vs team from another nearby town". Players who played in high school or college nearby would be the majority of the rosters.
Add in some local sponsorships, and try it the same way soccer in the US has grown, NPSL/USL level first and go from there.
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Post by aranhahunter on Oct 20, 2014 13:17:57 GMT -5
I am not sure if those countries' governments help subsidize leagues or not, I'm gonna guess, yes. I also say 4K because NWSL, WNBA, MLL, NLL, NBDL, Minor League Baseball, Minor League Hockey mostly average 4K+. MASL averages 1K and NBADL probably around 3K or so. Some of those leagues average close to 10K/game. Volleyball, being an olympic sport, having lots of folks who played it in HS and college, and a 'major' as opposed to a 'minor' would draw 4K IMO. I also think a women's league might be an easier sell than women's basketball or soccer, while men's will be a much harder sell. Depending on the ticket prices and location, I think it is doable, but 2.5K might be more in line with reality.
Isn't your idea what the PVL is trying to do? Not sure how successful the PVL can be, but I hear they try to do regional events. That's a nice grassroots efforts, but it's not a pro league in any way. Soccer has a long history in this country, MLS didn't start like that and it actually almost folded in the mid 2000's. Thankfully, it survived and is thriving now.
Let us know if you can get any information on that league. Would be interesting.
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Post by panicvb on Oct 20, 2014 14:42:52 GMT -5
I don't think you can compare the other sports to a start up like volleyball, but you do have a lot of great points.
PVL - seems to be just tournament action. Teams are too far away to make league play affordable. Unless I'm missing something from what I remember.
Soccer long history, but volleyball was invented here. ;-)
Soccer is my normal gig, but volleyball is more of a passion.
If you don't mind -PM me your email address and I'll share some of my ideas. I may approach Grand Prix and/or Doug Beal.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 7:24:07 GMT -5
I have had the opportunity to travel Europe a bit, albeit several years ago. I cannot say that the local governments do or do not subsidize their volleyball teams; however, I do know that there is a considerable amount of corporate sponsorship and support.
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Post by panicvb on Oct 21, 2014 12:01:44 GMT -5
If they use the same criteria that companies use for sports marketing over here, they would need to be seriously over spending for advertising before 2,500-4,000. Of course in the Serie A & B, you get to name the team after your company, so that is pretty cool.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 13:26:53 GMT -5
Ever look closely at the European and South American team uniforms? Yes, then you have seen their advertising. I would liken it to little league baseball in the 70s and 80s, where the sponsors names were displayed, proudly I might add, on the uniforms. Of course salaries are not as outrageous as they are here in the land of id!!!!!
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Post by panicvb on Oct 21, 2014 13:38:59 GMT -5
Oh heck yeah, but that's a lot of advertising. Nascaresque.
I'm fine with that too. Sir Safety Perugia... what a name!
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Post by bAnthony on Oct 21, 2014 16:52:27 GMT -5
Hey Panic, I left a comment in response to your's on the websites. I broke down attendance figures I found from looking at box scores.
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Post by panicvb on Oct 21, 2014 18:42:57 GMT -5
Thanks. I have looked at the Serie A/B, and Belgian without any luck. Thanks.
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