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Post by ja on Nov 20, 2014 10:56:10 GMT -5
JA - when a sport grows, like club volleyball has been growing, then you need to add coached with lower qualifications. The option for many clubs is not having a team, or using a new coach. But that should not translate into college, especially for the full time jobs. The part time issue is a whole other argument. aren't coaches also to blame for the issues? They are the ones giving these young coaches recommendations when they aren't really qualified. Do they ever tell an AD that a candidate isn't ready? Do they ever recommend someone else, maybe an older, more seasoned coach? Another issue is the fact that ball is not a big revenue sport, so the salaries are low. You can be an assistant coach in basketball and still make a good living for a number of years. In volleyball you can't do that. Coaches have to move up the ladder or move out just for financial reasons. Do other sports, like soccer, field hockey, lacrosse, or softball have these issues in their coaching ranks? I know this situation since I do have my club . This year I am bringing back three my former players, who are teachers in our DOE system. Speaking of revenue, most clubs can bring you a good paycheck in addition to college coach salary. Some of them are just a money making machine. I had a situation when one of my assistants asked my opinion about HC position and I told him that he is not ready. He did not apply. Later he told me that it was a reality check for him and he learned a lot from that situation. Full disclosure, he is still working for me. I am pretty sure he would be ready for his team in couple years. It would be my pleasure then to recommend him. But first I want to make sure that he learns his trade.
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cwpsy
Sophomore
Posts: 117
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Post by cwpsy on Nov 20, 2014 12:01:46 GMT -5
After being in the college system for a little while, it is tough for me to expect rational thought from AD's in the hiring process...or ever. Unless you are looking at top tier programs that expect a run their conferences... most AD's want a Volleyball coach that brings little attention to the school...fewer parent complaints, make sponsorship, take the last practice time so basketball has the run of the facilities and never ask for anything more than what you are given...so they don't really care about win / loss (till that itself brings negative attention). I think that they are finding that the young coaches have a hard time at meeting the expectations above... In part because the young coaches are pushing for more resources (adding scholarships, better practice times, etc..) to keep getting the wins they need in order to keep moving up the chain, but then those coaches find those wins aren't all that easy to snag.
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Post by Phaedrus on Nov 20, 2014 12:32:33 GMT -5
This is from a friend who was a VB coach in DI and DII for more than 30 years.
If you kept your head down and graduated kids, keeping the team GPA up, the AD's could care less. But once the coaches started to make waves about getting basketball type of support, the expectations have been raised, and the scimitar of Democles hangs by ever thinner threads over the heads of the coaches.
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Post by vbc1 on Nov 20, 2014 13:02:14 GMT -5
This is from a friend who was a VB coach in DI and DII for more than 30 years. If you kept your head down and graduated kids, keeping the team GPA up, the AD's could care less. But once the coaches started to make waves about getting basketball type of support, the expectations have been raised, and the scimitar of Democles hangs by ever thinner threads over the heads of the coaches. Great. Now I can add the fact that I don't know anything about Greek mythology to the myriad of reasons why I don't nail the big time interview. Thanks
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Post by oldman on Nov 20, 2014 13:04:25 GMT -5
This is from a friend who was a VB coach in DI and DII for more than 30 years. If you kept your head down and graduated kids, keeping the team GPA up, the AD's could care less. But once the coaches started to make waves about getting basketball type of support, the expectations have been raised, and the scimitar of Democles hangs by ever thinner threads over the heads of the coaches. He wears a lot of colorful shirt also. I have always found that if you compare your program with football or basketball then you will be disappointed. If you compare your program with tennis you will have a big grin on your face.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 13:14:00 GMT -5
This is from a friend who was a VB coach in DI and DII for more than 30 years. If you kept your head down and graduated kids, keeping the team GPA up, the AD's could care less. But once the coaches started to make waves about getting basketball type of support, the expectations have been raised, and the scimitar of Democles hangs by ever thinner threads over the heads of the coaches. I think that was in the past when volleyball wasn't that big, as visible, or one of the most played sports by girls. I think that now more is expected with all the stuff Phaedrus mentioned above. We are seeing coaches that did that stuff and are still losing their jobs. Volleyball is so much more visible and with that ADs expect a whole lot more. Gone are the days of the coach consistently losing but still able to work there because their kids don't make waves and graduate. They are giving you that 4 or so years- depending on if you are a jerk or not, and if you don't produce they are getting rid of you.
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Post by Phaedrus on Nov 20, 2014 13:26:00 GMT -5
I think that was in the past when volleyball wasn't that big, as visible, or one of the most played sports by girls. I think that now more is expected with all the stuff Phaedrus mentioned above. We are seeing coaches that did that stuff and are still losing their jobs. Volleyball is so much more visible and with that ADs expect a whole lot more. Gone are the days of the coach consistently losing but still able to work there because their kids don't make waves and graduate. They are giving you that 4 or so years- depending on if you are a jerk or not, and if you don't produce they are getting rid of you. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The younger coaches pushing for more resources and moving themselves closer to the crosshairs and the ADs seeing their program as a complete whole rather than just football and basketball. Of course having the powers that be emphasizing the overall program with the Learfield Sports Directors' Cup etc. raises the attention even more.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Nov 20, 2014 13:38:25 GMT -5
Salaries and size of budgets have changed why coaches lose their jobs. 10-15 years ago if you were getting paid 47k, kids were happy, graduating, staying out of trouble and your team was decent, you would never get fired. Once youre getting paid more, and given more resources, those things alone won't cut it.
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Post by spikeninja on Nov 20, 2014 14:40:30 GMT -5
After being in the college system for a little while, it is tough for me to expect rational thought from AD's in the hiring process...or ever. Unless you are looking at top tier programs that expect a run their conferences... most AD's want a Volleyball coach that brings little attention to the school...fewer parent complaints, make sponsorship, take the last practice time so basketball has the run of the facilities and never ask for anything more than what you are given...so they don't really care about win / loss (till that itself brings negative attention). I think that they are finding that the young coaches have a hard time at meeting the expectations above... In part because the young coaches are pushing for more resources (adding scholarships, better practice times, etc..) to keep getting the wins they need in order to keep moving up the chain, but then those coaches find those wins aren't all that easy to snag. When it comes to winning and losing...the administrative support is ultimately in charge of how much success someone has. Winning does not happen without support, and anytime you show me it does is an anomaly or perfect storm of circumstances and its fleeting. Think Gary Barnett at Northwestern in the 90's. Turned down Notre Dame and never got the same success at NW. Just my opinion.
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Post by oldman on Nov 20, 2014 16:10:21 GMT -5
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nkdvr
Sophomore
Posts: 196
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Post by nkdvr on Nov 21, 2014 0:05:57 GMT -5
Every 2 years, like clockwork
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Post by ja on Nov 21, 2014 8:33:05 GMT -5
Every 2 years, like clockwork Look at their record...
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Post by spikeninja on Nov 21, 2014 10:17:44 GMT -5
Salaries and size of budgets have changed why coaches lose their jobs. 10-15 years ago if you were getting paid 47k, kids were happy, graduating, staying out of trouble and your team was decent, you would never get fired. Once youre getting paid more, and given more resources, those things alone won't cut it. I would agree to a certain extent, meaning there are conferences, usually the mega 4-5 bcs type conferences, where that is the case. But for the rest of the 95% of the country, it's still what you said it was. Unless there is an arbitrary personality conflict between the coach and AD, which DOES happen with today's non-athletic experienced AD's. These people don't have the conflict management skills that an athletic professional does. The MBA/Bean Counter types are very autocratic in their management style. They want to CYA and rarely trust the individuals to do things on their own. They have rarely been a part of "teams"...and what do those lessons teach? Listening to those around you, playing a role and letting other do what they are best at, accepting criticism from peers, putting the team goals ahead of their personal gain, being accountable to the team, etc.....how many AD's today exhibit those qualities? There is nothing wrong with strong, clear leadership and direction. But the style in which it is executed, that is what a coach, athlete, or athletic experienced professional can offer versus the MBA bean counter. Yes, athletics today is a business. But to manage and run it strictly like a business model is an injustice to the uniqueness of it. It is unlike classic businesses. And anyone reading this who is in athletics understands this. It's not something that can be taken from a textbook. People love to talk about getting coaches who have PLAYED the game they coach(which has merit in its argument though I don't always buy into). I say apply that to leading athletics departments, get people who have ACTUALLY been involved in some way with athletics. End of rant.
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Post by bigticket on Nov 21, 2014 11:50:07 GMT -5
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Post by ja on Nov 21, 2014 11:50:29 GMT -5
Salaries and size of budgets have changed why coaches lose their jobs. 10-15 years ago if you were getting paid 47k, kids were happy, graduating, staying out of trouble and your team was decent, you would never get fired. Once youre getting paid more, and given more resources, those things alone won't cut it. Even at DI level there are still quiet few part-time gigs and jobs with extra duties and less money. I am not even talking about DIII schools, where coaches can't even dream about full time, not to mention 47K. Most of them will pay around 10K and no recruiting budget. BTW, where did you see happy kids and even more important, happy parents? It will be always couple bad apples, who will rock the boat. I do not know why parents got such a power on AD decision making in volleyball? I never heard any stories about angered parents calling AD from BB or golf, swimming or tennis. Is it our own sport identity? For some reason volleyball parents think that they are entitled to call AD to complain about DD not starting or not playing at all instead of calling coach and ask what is going on? They probably knows too well that DD have some bad hobbits, which they never mention to coach during recruiting process. Coaching carousel is really bad for the sport! Few my girls asked me about early decision and I told them not to do it. First, you do not have assurance that recruiting coach will be at school when you will attend it. Second, you can change your mind many times during your last year. Third, you can get so much better (specifically for late starters) that it will open new opportunities and last (very unfortunate) somebody can get hurt during spring training and coaches will have to plug it. Oops, got carried away a little bit. Back to subject. Coaching insecurity coupled with new generation AD management is really bad recipe for success. Bringing young, inexperienced girls into coaching does not do any good for both them and schools. It's very hard to manage 20+ years old young ladies if you are 2-3 years older and just finish your grad school. One of my former players was named HC of DIII school right after graduation. Do not get me wrong, she is a very good young lady, but she is not a COACH!
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