bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
Posts: 12,370
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Post by bluepenquin on Nov 25, 2014 21:25:24 GMT -5
Isn't all the talk about the supposedly huge RPI ramifications for ISU overstated? At this point in the season, in-conference RPIs don't shift all that much, do they? Yes, but if ISU's RPI is around 12 or even higher, it is a lot tougher to not give them a seed than if they are 15 or even 16. That is really important for the Cyclones because they have been good at home this year (9-3, only losses to Stanford, Florida State & Texas), but have been poor on the road (6-7 outside of Ames). While anything can happen in any match, the fact is ISU has beaten teams like K-State, Kansas and Oklahoma at home, but have road losses to the likes of TCU, Baylor and Tech (maybe). If ISU has to go on the road for first & second rounds, the path back home for their regional will be a lot more challenging than if they could host 1st & 2nd.* *That's not even getting into the whole "but ISU is not one of the 16 best teams in the country!" thing. Don't blame the Cyclones, blame the system (and their #2 strength of schedule ranking).
Iowa State is currently #12 in RPI (and RKPI). RKPI Projection has them #16 with a 17-9 record (no Contest). This also matches my RPI Futures. Iowa State has 2 matches left (Texas Tech & Baylor) both at home, plus the conclusion of this match. Assuming they win their regular home matches this weekend, here are the approx. implications for the protested match:
1) Win - RPI = #15 2) Lose - RPI = #18 3) No Contest - RPI = #16 (no longer an option).
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isu40
Sophomore
Posts: 145
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Post by isu40 on Nov 25, 2014 22:02:04 GMT -5
Ok just so I have this straight. Whoever wins this 'game' gets the win towards their over record and RPI? This is really hard because their is not going to be an real momentum and the game should last 20 minutes. It can take that long for a team to warm up and get into a flow, but you can't restart the set either.
Has this ever happened before where teams needed to replay a set or game?
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Post by n00b on Nov 25, 2014 22:20:57 GMT -5
How is replaying this even an option? No one replays football or basketball games based on bad calls?? Do the teams have to use the same line-ups that were on the floor then? This just seems all around wrong...there are bad calls in every match. And it certainly shouldn't be done at the opponents venue, fans or not. Strange precedent being set here? Not true. It's certainly rare, but it happens in both the NBA and MLB. Maybe not in the NFL. Here are the most recent occurrences in the NBA and MLB. The most famous upheld protest in professional sports has to be this one...
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Post by FOBRA on Nov 25, 2014 22:25:05 GMT -5
Ok just so I have this straight. Whoever wins this 'game' gets the win towards their over record and RPI? This is really hard because their is not going to be an real momentum and the game should last 20 minutes. It can take that long for a team to warm up and get into a flow, but you can't restart the set either. Has this ever happened before where teams needed to replay a set or game? This happened in men's volleyball a few years ago with UCLA and BYU.
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Post by elevationvb on Nov 25, 2014 22:42:34 GMT -5
Just a guess - seeding and hosting the regional? Just what I would expect out of you. The official who made the error lives near you why don't you check with him. BAD CALL means judgement. Substititutions requirements are clearly delineated in the rule book and this was not followed. Hence misapplication. Why do I care where the official lives?
The decision was by the NCAA. And yes I think Iowa State hosting the regional and their current seeding issues are a factor.
In the meantime, let me know when something like this happened in the past.
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Post by austintatious on Nov 25, 2014 22:50:43 GMT -5
Just what I would expect out of you. The official who made the error lives near you why don't you check with him. BAD CALL means judgement. Substititutions requirements are clearly delineated in the rule book and this was not followed. Hence misapplication. Why do I care where the official lives?
The decision was by the NCAA. And yes I think Iowa State hosting the regional and their current seeding issues are a factor.
In the meantime, let me know when something like this happened in the past.
Doesn't happen very often. See the baseball example above. There are normally 1-5 protests upheld each year within the three NCAA divisions, but very rarely are they replayed. Only if it has a bearing on the season like this one. And if you knew as much about the game as you try to see everyone, you would know what constitutes a protestable situation. No wonder you are high on the turkey list.
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Post by elevationvb on Nov 25, 2014 23:02:57 GMT -5
Why do I care where the official lives?
The decision was by the NCAA. And yes I think Iowa State hosting the regional and their current seeding issues are a factor.
In the meantime, let me know when something like this happened in the past.
Doesn't happen very often. See the baseball example above. There are normally 1-5 protests upheld each year within the three NCAA divisions, but very rarely are they replayed. Only if it has a bearing on the season like this one. And if you knew as much about the game as you try to see everyone, you would know what constitutes a protestable situation. No wonder you are high on the turkey list. When you reach the point of attacking me personally, I know that you are on shaky ground. And it doesn't change my belief Iowa State hosting a regional and being on the borderline of being seeded is a major factor behind what the NCAA has done. As pointed out before, they were well behind when the controversy occurred and came back to tie the 5th set. It's BS - my opinion.
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Post by rogero1 on Nov 25, 2014 23:10:18 GMT -5
MLB upheld the SF Giants protest about the Chicago Cubs' grounds crew not properly covering the field during a rain delay this year. They ended up re-playing the rest of that game a few days later before a scheduled game due to its possible impact on the pennant race. Cubs won the replay also.
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Post by trollhunter on Nov 25, 2014 23:36:18 GMT -5
April 6, 2012 - UCLA vs BYU in mens volleyball.
You can look up the gory details of that protest that was upheld and replayed.
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Post by shanproc on Nov 26, 2014 0:29:30 GMT -5
So... just to clarify: If the Cyclones lose this replay, then their RPI will drop even lower even though this was already counted as one of their losses with their RPI currently at #12?
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Post by ay2013 on Nov 26, 2014 0:39:54 GMT -5
This seems really unnecessary to me. It makes Christy seem like a whiny b*tch, which is fine for volleytalkers, but not for a head coach of a major D-1 program.
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isu40
Sophomore
Posts: 145
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Post by isu40 on Nov 26, 2014 7:26:57 GMT -5
This seems really unnecessary to me. It makes Christy seem like a whiny b*tch, which is fine for volleytalkers, but not for a head coach of a major D-1 program. I don't think this is the case. She and the college has not spoken about this, not even in the presser, For most of us cyclone fans we didn't even know about this. I think they protested at the time it happened (as you can see it was rightly protested and officials were wrong). I don't want to be lumped into being a whiney cyclone fan but this isn't the first or second time that something has happened to Cyclone athletics that was apologized for. At least something can be done to rectify it. Make the most of your opportunity.
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bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
Posts: 12,370
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Post by bluepenquin on Nov 26, 2014 7:49:10 GMT -5
So... just to clarify: If the Cyclones lose this replay, then their RPI will drop even lower even though this was already counted as one of their losses with their RPI currently at #12? The current RPI at #12 did not count this game (No Contest) as if it was never played. If RPI had counted this match as a loss, ISU would not have an RPI of 12.
Going forward - they have 3 matches against teams with approximately .500 records, so winning these games will not help their RPI. Of course, where ISU finishes is also dependent on how teams around them finish (BYU, Marquette, UCLA, Arizona, Kansas, Kentucky, Colorado State, Kansas State).
The Big 12 Conference had counted this match as a loss until yesterday (or so) and now have it as a suspended game. The NCAA and RPI never counted this game.
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Post by volleylover26 on Nov 26, 2014 9:05:47 GMT -5
This seems really unnecessary to me. It makes Christy seem like a whiny b*tch, which is fine for volleytalkers, but not for a head coach of a major D-1 program. Seems like a criminal getting off on a technicality. Legal? I guess. Right? No, especially because it's not being replayed at Tech. Really feels like Miss New AVCA President did a great job greasing the wheels to give her team the best odds to get this 'win'. I can just hear her and the Big 12 talking the Tech coach into the replay at ISU as 'you know, it's best for the conference if we get another team seeded, so let's just go along with this plan'. If it was that important to her to win with integrity, at least pony up the money and effort to replay it on the original court, not on your home court now. Even without fans in attendance, it's definitely not the home court Tech originally won on. The whole thing stinks IMO. I'm pulling for Tech to beat 'em again at noon. Hope they're feeling really ticked off....
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Post by dorothymantooth on Nov 26, 2014 9:09:54 GMT -5
This seems really unnecessary to me. It makes Christy seem like a whiny b*tch, which is fine for volleytalkers, but not for a head coach of a major D-1 program. Really? You couldnt have gone with "poor sport", "baby"........
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