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Post by NebraskaVBfan93 on Nov 26, 2014 14:21:40 GMT -5
Don't give John Cook any ideas. Remember "the ball was out"?
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Post by cyclonesbigfan on Nov 26, 2014 14:24:05 GMT -5
Why would anyone criticize a coach for challenging a bad call or not following the rules?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 14:24:31 GMT -5
Is that a llama?
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Post by hebrooks87 on Nov 26, 2014 14:28:25 GMT -5
That's what I'm asking -- how would you be able to rectify it if the scorekeeper wrote down the wrong sub? There's no backup. 1. The assistant scorer should also be tracking subs. 2. The play by play would, in theory, be recording all subs, and can be used in the event of a protest to verify and correct information. I used it a couple of times this year in situations where I was pretty sure the scorer was wrong, and you can encourage a coach to protest so that you can use that tool to get things right. I don't know if either of these were done in the above situation, I'm just saying there are things that can be done even if the scorer gets things wrong. I never went to the play by play, but I've remembered when subs hadn't been in in matches and checked with the AS. Had a college match where the one player on either roster whom I had reffed in high school came to sub in and the scorer told me she had already been in. I knew that was the one sub I'd remember going in. Fortunately, the AS had gotten the earlier sub right and we cleared it up without much delay.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Nov 26, 2014 14:28:47 GMT -5
Why would anyone criticize a coach for challenging a bad call or not following the rules? CJL made the right move, and the right move for her team. I don't think anyone questions why she did it, and I would in fact argue she had a duty to her team to advocate for them as much as possible. It's just odd in the grand scheme of things, as pretty much every team has had unfortunate rulings against them but I can't think of anyone else getting a second chance....a month later...at home to replay things. Generally, when you walk off the court, it's over, and that's what we've come to expect as sports fans. But we just have to accept that in volleyball not all calls are created equal.
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Post by tomclen on Nov 26, 2014 14:40:19 GMT -5
Why would anyone criticize a coach for challenging a bad call or not following the rules? CJL made the right move, and the right move for her team. I don't think anyone questions why she did it, and I would in fact argue she had a duty to her team to advocate for them as much as possible. It's just odd in the grand scheme of things, as pretty much every team has had unfortunate rulings against them but I can't think of anyone else getting a second chance....a month later...at home to replay things. Generally, when you walk off the court, it's over, and that's what we've come to expect as sports fans. But we just have to accept that in volleyball not all calls are created equal. Don't forget George Brett and the Pine Tar Game, which was also restarted from the point of 'the incident' and the Royals won. link
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 14:50:27 GMT -5
Why would anyone criticize a coach for challenging a bad call or not following the rules? CJL made the right move, and the right move for her team. I don't think anyone questions why she did it, and I would in fact argue she had a duty to her team to advocate for them as much as possible. It's just odd in the grand scheme of things, as pretty much every team has had unfortunate rulings against them but I can't think of anyone else getting a second chance....a month later...at home to replay things. Generally, when you walk off the court, it's over, and that's what we've come to expect as sports fans. But we just have to accept that in volleyball not all calls are created equal. You're still calling this a "call." I still think that's where you're being led in the wrong direction. How often are rules misapplied and not rectified? I don't know the answer, but that's the better question. Right?
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moody
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Post by moody on Nov 26, 2014 14:50:52 GMT -5
Name one sport that technology has eliminated an official's position. Volleyball. As rogero1 pointed out, they've eliminated line judges. Most times they never had line judges.
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Post by austintatious on Nov 26, 2014 14:57:50 GMT -5
Doesn't happen very often. See the baseball example above. There are normally 1-5 protests upheld each year within the three NCAA divisions, but very rarely are they replayed. Only if it has a bearing on the season like this one. And if you knew as much about the game as you try to see everyone, you would know what constitutes a protestable situation. No wonder you are high on the turkey list. When you reach the point of attacking me personally, I know that you are on shaky ground. And it doesn't change my belief Iowa State hosting a regional and being on the borderline of being seeded is a major factor behind what the NCAA has done. As pointed out before, they were well behind when the controversy occurred and came back to tie the 5th set. It's BS - my opinion.Sorry about the personal attack, it was uncalled for. It is just you come off as such an expert on vb yet have not grasped that the rules of the game must be followed and this was a clear misapplication of a rule. Why this was replayed and others aren't are above me, but it certainly is legal.
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Post by austintatious on Nov 26, 2014 14:59:31 GMT -5
1. The assistant scorer should also be tracking subs. 2. The play by play would, in theory, be recording all subs, and can be used in the event of a protest to verify and correct information. I used it a couple of times this year in situations where I was pretty sure the scorer was wrong, and you can encourage a coach to protest so that you can use that tool to get things right. I don't know if either of these were done in the above situation, I'm just saying there are things that can be done even if the scorer gets things wrong. I never went to the play by play, but I've remembered when subs hadn't been in in matches and checked with the AS. Had a college match where the one player on either roster whom I had reffed in high school came to sub in and the scorer told me she had already been in. I knew that was the one sub I'd remember going in. Fortunately, the AS had gotten the earlier sub right and we cleared it up without much delay. The R2 pretty much didn't take the time to do any research, said this is it, lets play.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Nov 26, 2014 15:02:08 GMT -5
I never went to the play by play, but I've remembered when subs hadn't been in in matches and checked with the AS. Had a college match where the one player on either roster whom I had reffed in high school came to sub in and the scorer told me she had already been in. I knew that was the one sub I'd remember going in. Fortunately, the AS had gotten the earlier sub right and we cleared it up without much delay. The R2 pretty much didn't take the time to do any research, said this is it, lets play. What struck me as the only thing odd about this, is that they didnt get an interpretation right than and there, or at least 10 minutes after the match. There isnt a rule book around, or someone you could call for clarification?
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Post by dorothymantooth on Nov 26, 2014 15:03:09 GMT -5
I can say this, it had to be a very awkward handshake after the match. Although the outcome was fair, Tech had to be a little pissed, and ISU had to feel a little sheepish.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Nov 26, 2014 15:06:56 GMT -5
CJL made the right move, and the right move for her team. I don't think anyone questions why she did it, and I would in fact argue she had a duty to her team to advocate for them as much as possible. It's just odd in the grand scheme of things, as pretty much every team has had unfortunate rulings against them but I can't think of anyone else getting a second chance....a month later...at home to replay things. Generally, when you walk off the court, it's over, and that's what we've come to expect as sports fans. But we just have to accept that in volleyball not all calls are created equal. You're still calling this a "call." I still think that's where you're being led in the wrong direction. How often are rules misapplied and not rectified? I don't know the answer, but that's the better question. Right? Your more specific question would be a good avenue to look into. But it also kind of misses the last point I made. This was a rules misinterpretation, rather than a bad "judgment call." Is one mistake more egregious than the other? Was Iowa St. more shafted than any other team that got screwed by the refs? No, but one has an avenue for redress and the other doesn't. Hence, why I say that we have to accept that "not all calls are created equal." And also, if it was a clear rules misinterpretation, where was the rulebook? Why weren't they able to address it day of? The delay just makes the situation that much odder.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 15:09:30 GMT -5
They could look at it this way: Refs are human and will not get all judgment calls right, but they SHOULD know the rules and how to apply them.
The difference between calling someone for a foot fault and not awarding a point for that foot fault?
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Post by elevationvb on Nov 26, 2014 15:21:56 GMT -5
When you reach the point of attacking me personally, I know that you are on shaky ground. And it doesn't change my belief Iowa State hosting a regional and being on the borderline of being seeded is a major factor behind what the NCAA has done. As pointed out before, they were well behind when the controversy occurred and came back to tie the 5th set. It's BS - my opinion. Sorry about the personal attack, it was uncalled for. It is just you come off as such an expert on vb yet have not grasped that the rules of the game must be followed and this was a clear misapplication of a rule. Why this was replayed and others aren't are above me, but it certainly is legal. I am not saying I am an expert. And I am not saying it is illegal. I am expressing an opinion based on 1) Iowa State hosting the regional; 2) Iowa State not having a stellar season; and 3) the desire of the NCAA tournament committee to seed them so they can host the regional. If the circumstances involved let's say TCU and Texas Tech, I doubt the NCAA would have ordered the 5th set to be replayed at the protest part of the match.
Just an opinion - maybe cynical but there is plenty of sports that warrants cynicism.
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