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ACC 2015
Jul 31, 2015 15:49:36 GMT -5
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Jul 31, 2015 15:49:36 GMT -5
I like the names mentioned. Also, believe that Meyers for Duke will be a standout. Also possible that Kelli Kalinoski will take the libero spot at Duke but not sure she will make the all freshman team. I think that Mhairi Agnew will be very strong for Miami even though she is a little undersized for a middle. Also excited to see what Jaila Tolbert does at Virginia Tech. VT seems good at developing players and they have some good raw athleticism to work with in Tolbert. I agree with you on Agnew at Miami. Unfortunately she backed out. So UM signed a freshman to replace her who likely isn't a DI player, and certainly not a middle. Athletic, not overly tall (5'11" i think), and really hasn't been dedicated to volleyball. Gotta be really disappointing to coaching staffs when players transfer, withdraw, etc. But Miami does seem to get back Alexis Mourning in the middle who was All-ACC a couple year ago and Simmons who should only be better with another year of experience. While the Miami roster looks skimpy and they certainly will regress without Leaf, I don't they'll fall as far as many are saying with Templeton setting and Stranzali, Taylor Scott and Groot at the pins. Still a good amount of experience on the court.
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Post by skullars on Jul 31, 2015 16:05:45 GMT -5
I agree with you on Agnew at Miami. Unfortunately she backed out. So UM signed a freshman to replace her who likely isn't a DI player, and certainly not a middle. Athletic, not overly tall (5'11" i think), and really hasn't been dedicated to volleyball. Gotta be really disappointing to coaching staffs when players transfer, withdraw, etc. But Miami does seem to get back Alexis Mourning in the middle who was All-ACC a couple year ago and Simmons who should only be better with another year of experience. While the Miami roster looks skimpy and they certainly will regress without Leaf, I don't they'll fall as far as many are saying with Templeton setting and Stranzali, Taylor Scott and Groot at the pins. Still a good amount of experience on the court. Yep it will be good for them getting Mourning back. But she's a Sr and I was looking out beyond just this season. Also never know for sure how a player will come back after an injury season. Strantzali should step right in as starter and could be good for them. Hopefully they can spread Leaf's production among several players. Scott is an undersized pin hitter who has trouble finding a way over & around blocks. Groot could definitely pick up some Leaf production as opposite. Templeton is really good, just needed some improvement on defense.
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Post by chatchu-off moksri on Jul 31, 2015 16:07:35 GMT -5
I agree with you on Agnew at Miami. Unfortunately she backed out. So UM signed a freshman to replace her who likely isn't a DI player, and certainly not a middle. Athletic, not overly tall (5'11" i think), and really hasn't been dedicated to volleyball. Gotta be really disappointing to coaching staffs when players transfer, withdraw, etc. But Miami does seem to get back Alexis Mourning in the middle who was All-ACC a couple year ago and Simmons who should only be better with another year of experience. While the Miami roster looks skimpy and they certainly will regress without Leaf, I don't they'll fall as far as many are saying with Templeton setting and Stranzali, Taylor Scott and Groot at the pins. Still a good amount of experience on the court. Is Mourning coming back for her 5th year? Then that will be good especially with the Leaf being gone now. Miami will probably regress a lot this next year. You just can't replace Leaf and her offensive game. I don't think Stranzali will be more effective than she was at UCLA, even though I think it is an upgrade at setting with Haley Templeton.
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ACC 2015
Jul 31, 2015 17:23:19 GMT -5
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Jul 31, 2015 17:23:19 GMT -5
But Miami does seem to get back Alexis Mourning in the middle who was All-ACC a couple year ago and Simmons who should only be better with another year of experience. While the Miami roster looks skimpy and they certainly will regress without Leaf, I don't they'll fall as far as many are saying with Templeton setting and Stranzali, Taylor Scott and Groot at the pins. Still a good amount of experience on the court. Is Mourning coming back for her 5th year? Then that will be good especially with the Leaf being gone now. Miami will probably regress a lot this next year. You just can't replace Leaf and her offensive game. I don't think Stranzali will be more effective than she was at UCLA, even though I think it is an upgrade at setting with Haley Templeton. Templeton was setting last year, I don't know what you mean by upgrade. And yeah they'll regress, about anyone who knows who Leaf and sims are has been saying that for a while. However, Miami was very underrated last year (like the whole ACC) so they will still fight for top 5 in the conference and possibly be a bubble team.
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Post by chatchu-off moksri on Jul 31, 2015 17:30:31 GMT -5
Is Mourning coming back for her 5th year? Then that will be good especially with the Leaf being gone now. Miami will probably regress a lot this next year. You just can't replace Leaf and her offensive game. I don't think Stranzali will be more effective than she was at UCLA, even though I think it is an upgrade at setting with Haley Templeton. Templeton was setting last year, I don't know what you mean by upgrade. And yeah they'll regress, about anyone who knows who Leaf and sims are has been saying that for a while. However, Miami was very underrated last year (like the whole ACC) so they will still fight for top 5 in the conference and possibly be a bubble team. I mean that the setting will be an upgrade for Stranzali. Templeton is better than Consani IMO. And yeah Miami will probably be a bubble team.
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Post by chancelucky on Jul 31, 2015 18:02:20 GMT -5
I don't think the ACC was underrated last year. They had 2 teams in the top 10 and Duke was in the top 25. 4 teams in the tournament wasn't bad. I"m pretty sure there would have been a 5th. The problem was that the conference didn't have a clear cut candidate for spot 5.
There have definitely been past years when the conference didn't get the respect it deserved, but I'm not sure that was the case last year. It's not the Big 10 or Pac 12. I kind of see it as being in a bunch with Big 8, SEC, WCC.
The Big East gets lumped in there sometimes and that's the one I don't understand, given how the former quite successful Big East teams have fared in the ACC. fwiw, I don't think Louisville, Notre Dame, and even Syracuse will be bottom half teams permanently. Pitt's already done pretty well in the ACC.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 18:21:53 GMT -5
Notre dame had not been that successful in recent years in the big east, and Louisville has faded with their coaching change. Syracuse wasn't s good team in the big east either.
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ACC 2015
Jul 31, 2015 18:29:19 GMT -5
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Jul 31, 2015 18:29:19 GMT -5
I don't think the ACC was underrated last year. They had 2 teams in the top 10 and Duke was in the top 25. 4 teams in the tournament wasn't bad. I"m pretty sure there would have been a 5th. The problem was that the conference didn't have a clear cut candidate for spot 5. There have definitely been past years when the conference didn't get the respect it deserved, but I'm not sure that was the case last year. It's not the Big 10 or Pac 12. I kind of see it as being in a bunch with Big 8, SEC, WCC. The Big East gets lumped in there sometimes and that's the one I don't understand, given how the former quite successful Big East teams have fared in the ACC. fwiw, I don't think Louisville, Notre Dame, and even Syracuse will be bottom half teams permanently. Pitt's already done pretty well in the ACC. Virginia Tech Check the conference's Pablo ratings versus their AVCA rankings and general sentiment about them. It's not a recurring thing, but last year the ACC (at least the top) was recognizably underrated. Granted it's hard to compare because the ACC has many more teams, but if were only talking about contenders the top 5 teams from last year would win the majority of neutral court matches if playing against Big 12, SEC and WCC despite getting less tourney teams (WCC also got 4).
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Post by chancelucky on Jul 31, 2015 19:10:52 GMT -5
In Notre Dame's last 4 years in the Big East they were
14-0, 10-4, 8-6, 12-2 = 44-12 (in conference) which Big East schools did better than that?
In Kordes's 2 years coaching Louisville in the Big East they were 24-9 and 30-4 and did pretty well in conference (they were in the AAC in 2013) because they were first in the ACC both years.
Are we talking about the same sport?
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Post by chancelucky on Jul 31, 2015 19:27:30 GMT -5
Triangle VB,
I would agree that Pablo tends to underrate Eastern teams in general, but I usually think of AVCA as more the "opinion" poll because it's a vote of the coaches rather than a formula based on match results like the Pablo (something that makes overrated-unerrated a less human fallibility driven sort of endeavor).
I think there was a case for Virginia Tech last year because they had some very big wins, but they had both a lot of losses and some losses to not very good teams. I couldn't exactly be outraged about their being left out.
In general, I think a conference's reputation rests on the performance of its top teams. It's not a head to head matchup thing really. It's more a question of how the best teams from that conference have done in the tournament.
Right now the ACC has one appearance in the final four. The Big 12, WCC, SEC have all done better than that. In the case of the SEC most of that is due to Florida and in the Big 12 it's Texas, but the ACC still doesn't have a program that's gotten there. I think once 2-3 programs from the ACC crack the final 4, the whole underrated/overrated talk goes away. The ACC doesn't even have much of a history of pulling off big upsets in the tournament.
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ACC 2015
Jul 31, 2015 19:54:04 GMT -5
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Jul 31, 2015 19:54:04 GMT -5
Triangle VB, I would agree that Pablo tends to underrate Eastern teams in general, but I usually think of AVCA as more the "opinion" poll because it's a vote of the coaches rather than a formula based on match results like the Pablo (something that makes overrated-unerrated a less human fallibility driven sort of endeavor). I think there was a case for Virginia Tech last year because they had some very big wins, but they had both a lot of losses and some losses to not very good teams. I couldn't exactly be BIK'd about their being left out. In general, I think a conference's reputation rests on the performance of its top teams. It's not a head to head matchup thing really. It's more a question of how the best teams from that conference have done in the tournament. Right now the ACC has one appearance in the final four. The Big 12, WCC, SEC have all done better than that. In the case of the SEC most of that is due to Florida and in the Big 12 it's Texas, but the ACC still doesn't have a program that's gotten there. I think once 2-3 programs from the ACC crack the final 4, the whole underrated/overrated talk goes away. The ACC doesn't even have much of a history of pulling off big upsets in the tournament. Okay well then we're not talking about the same thing. I was talking about conference quality last year, not Final Fours and historic playoff performance. Historically, of course those other conferences have been better. Last year only the Big 10 and PAC 12 had more teams in the Sweet 16. I don't understand your point about Pablo. I cited how highly Pablo rates ACC then you said that Pablo underrated ACC teams. I was talking about how the general "opinion" (like you call the AVCA) underrated ACC teams last year. It sounds like you either agree with me or don't understand my point which was simply that the ACC was underrated LAST YEAR, which I stand by.
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Post by chancelucky on Jul 31, 2015 20:19:03 GMT -5
I probably am misunderstanding you. In general, RPI has historically favored Eastern teams relative to "performance" and Pablo has "corrected" RPI's alleged Eastern bias. I can't remember where UNC, FSU, and Duke were in Pablo last year. For some reason, Ithought Duke's Pablo was significantly lower than it's 25 ranking in AVCA.
Most of the year RPI had FSU very high, but I simply can't remember where Pablo ranked FSU and UNC. I know that Pablo and RPI are both formula based. 7, 10, 25 in AVCA (coaches' voting) at the end of the year is doing pretty well as far as I can tell. I'm a big UNC fan, but don't have much of an argument that they should have been ahead of any of the 6 teams ahead of them at the end of the year. I also don't see much of an argument for ranking FSU higher than 10. Given Duke's showing in the tournament against a low to mid 20's team in Hawaii, I thought 25 was reasonably generous.
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ACC 2015
Jul 31, 2015 20:46:02 GMT -5
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Jul 31, 2015 20:46:02 GMT -5
I probably am misunderstanding you. In general, RPI has historically favored Eastern teams relative to "performance" and Pablo has "corrected" RPI's alleged Eastern bias. I can't remember where UNC, FSU, and Duke were in Pablo last year. For some reason, Ithought Duke's Pablo was significantly lower than it's 25 ranking in AVCA. Most of the year RPI had FSU very high, but I simply can't remember where Pablo ranked FSU and UNC. I know that Pablo and RPI are both formula based. 7, 10, 25 in AVCA (coaches' voting) at the end of the year is doing pretty well as far as I can tell. I'm a big UNC fan, but don't have much of an argument that they should have been ahead of any of the 6 teams ahead of them at the end of the year. I also don't see much of an argument for ranking FSU higher than 10. Given Duke's showing in the tournament against a low to mid 20's team in Hawaii, I thought 25 was reasonably generous. Duke's Pablo was 21 and Miami's was 25, much above the respect that they got last year from coaches and posters. That was my point and why I said to check their Pablo's.
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Post by chancelucky on Jul 31, 2015 20:59:15 GMT -5
Ah, thanks! I don't have a Rich Kern subscription, so don't get to look at the Pablo that often. So Pablo had 4 ACC school's in its final top 25 for 2014?
I think RPI had 4 in the top 27 with FSU top 3, UNC 7, Duke 21, Miami 27. What was the Pablo for FSU and UNC?
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ACC 2015
Jul 31, 2015 21:23:48 GMT -5
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Jul 31, 2015 21:23:48 GMT -5
Ah, thanks! I don't have a Rich Kern subscription, so don't get to look at the Pablo that often. So Pablo had 4 ACC school's in its final top 25 for 2014? I think RPI had 4 in the top 27 with FSU top 3, UNC 7, Duke 21, Miami 27. What was the Pablo for FSU and UNC? 10 and 8, you can check top teams rankings for free.
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