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Post by gigibear on Jan 9, 2015 18:21:37 GMT -5
So does Papa Tanner get to coach his daughter after all?
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Post by jsn112 on Jan 9, 2015 18:21:58 GMT -5
Does this mean Penn State has to play Washington in the first round in the near future? Low blow, I know. But it is well deserved. You really think Penn State is going to drop that much without Hancock? Tu che.
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Post by Wolfgang on Jan 9, 2015 18:22:08 GMT -5
Love the concept of human free will, and admire people taking on risks and challenges-in-life, and wish the classy JM the very best. But the personal journey stuff aside, for me JM taking the ND job would be a head scratcher. For other capable coaches in less desirable roles, absolutely a great opportunity. Could the December 12th match have possibly gotten into his head? This conjures up a delusional "grass-is-greener" reaction for me. JM-Malibu might relate to "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone"..another JM. I think this first paragraph, for some reason, works for me as I try to figure out his thinking process. In particular, the "grass is always greener" idea always has a way to creeping into every person's head. Often, decisions are made based on pure emotional reactions to what just recently happened and, in JMac's case, the disappointment in the NCAAs -- in particular, the loss to what many considered a flawed Nebraska team -- in recent years must've weighed heavily. Perhaps he thought, "Well, this is as far as I can go here [in Seattle]" in combination with "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence." Your other paragraphs, though interesting and valid, don't pack the same emotional punch as your first paragraph.
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Post by tomclen on Jan 9, 2015 18:28:07 GMT -5
Love the concept of human free will, and admire people taking on risks and challenges-in-life, and wish the classy JM the very best. But the personal journey stuff aside, for me JM taking the ND job would be a head scratcher. For other capable coaches in less desirable roles, absolutely a great opportunity. Could the December 12th match have possibly gotten into his head? This conjures up a delusional "grass-is-greener" reaction for me. JM-Malibu might relate to "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone"..another JM. I think this first paragraph, for some reason, works for me as I try to figure out his thinking process. Often, decisions are made based on pure emotional reactions to what just recently happened and, in JMac's case, the disappointment in the NCAAs -- in particular, the loss to what many considered a flawed Nebraska team -- in recent years must've weighed heavily. Perhaps he thought, "Well, this is as far as I can go here." Your other paragraphs, though interesting and valid, don't pack the same emotional punch as your first paragraph. I don't think you can discount the family connection. The McLaughlin's have young daughters and his wife's parents are driving distance from Notre Dame. Plus his wife attended ND and played sports there. Having your children be close to their grandparents can become a very big deal after a couple years of missed Thanksgivings and Christmases and birthdays, etc. I wouldn't discount that factor. Plus if it's considerably more money and later-life financial security by returning to a campus that probably evokes very fond memories for his wife....and a great university....this isn't the head-scratcher some are making it seem. McLaughlin has never displayed any evidence of making big changes based on one win or one loss. He is not the type to make emotional decisions based on a game.
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Post by Sbilo on Jan 9, 2015 18:29:00 GMT -5
Where's Tomclen and Redbeard?
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Post by Wolfgang on Jan 9, 2015 18:30:31 GMT -5
I think this first paragraph, for some reason, works for me as I try to figure out his thinking process. Often, decisions are made based on pure emotional reactions to what just recently happened and, in JMac's case, the disappointment in the NCAAs -- in particular, the loss to what many considered a flawed Nebraska team -- in recent years must've weighed heavily. Perhaps he thought, "Well, this is as far as I can go here." Your other paragraphs, though interesting and valid, don't pack the same emotional punch as your first paragraph. I don't think you can discount the family connection. The McLaughlin's have young daughters and his wife's parents are driving distance from Notre Dame. Plus his wife attended ND and played sports there. Having your children be close to their grandparents can become a very big deal after a couple years of missed Thanksgivings and Christmases and birthdays, etc. I wouldn't discount that factor. Plus if it's considerably more money and later-life financial security by returning to a campus that probably evokes very fond memories for his wife....and a great university....this isn't the head-scratcher some are making it seem. Family is over-rated. "Family" is a reason you give to the press and people who want an explanation for a move. For example, Urban Meyer's "retirement" from Florida to spend more time with family, only to resurface later at Ohio State. Coaches have criss-crossed the nation in search of lucrative job opportunities, and the family will have no choice but to just support them.
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Post by gnu2vball on Jan 9, 2015 19:04:21 GMT -5
Maybe he did it because he was jealous of all the attention that Holman has been receiving?
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Post by #skoskers on Jan 9, 2015 19:06:47 GMT -5
Love the concept of human free will, and admire people taking on risks and challenges-in-life, and wish the classy JM the very best. But the personal journey stuff aside, for me JM taking the ND job would be a head scratcher. For other capable coaches in less desirable roles, absolutely a great opportunity. Could the December 12th match have possibly gotten into his head? This conjures up a delusional "grass-is-greener" reaction for me. JM-Malibu might relate to "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone"..another JM. Money- I don't believe money is the reason. Indiana has fixed 3.5% state income tax, not large, but still. Washington, none. At $274,000+ per year, you have a very nice lifestyle in Seattle. It's not going to get better in South Bend, and no significantly greater generational wealth is going to be created over the same period after taxes. Academics: Washington is considered a top research university and one of the "Public Ivies". Notre Dame has national brand cache on the job market, but in Seattle you're schooling in one of the top job markets in the US, with Amazon, Microsoft, Starbucks, Nordstrom and many others. Attendance: No doubt JM benefitted from large crowds at UW with recruits. UW / Seattle's passion for VB surpasses South Bend's. Washington averaged 3,000 at home, ND 1,000. Student's UW-44,000; ND-12,000. Southbend 100,000 population. The ND gym going to feel empty, and wish him luck creating the same energy. He'll be recruiting more directly with Nebraska, sellouts, 8,000 per? Lincoln, 285,000 pop. Location works both ways: ND is surrounded by volleyball traditions at Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigans, Kentucky, Louisville. The notion that he's going to "move-in" and consistently "pluck" future top recruits from top coaches and programs is ambitious to say the least. Not to mention PSU and Nebraska selling into the same group. How does this result in "easier" and/or superior result than recruiting into UW and competing in the Pac-12? VB Population: A move based on the belief that the Midwest has more talented club players to draw from seems flawed at least based on population stats for vb states, and trend toward international players. CA + WA, OR, UT, CO, HA = 58 M pop. IN + Il, MN,MI ,KY ,OH= 38 M. How'd the Under Armour game go for the east? He already had looks at top Canadian players at UW. Maybe he thinks there is just more height to coach up? We could get into a long discussion on Pac-12 speed vs B1G size in a Rose Bowl and basketball context, and I think that argument would get diffused. Exposure: The value of ESPN's ACC TV coverage seems a bit uncertain and far-off to give great stock, and this motivator assumes a burgeoning talent pool in the east, so its curious if this weighed heavily in a decision. In-laws: I don't beleive JM told his team that this this decision was made based on his family's desire to be within a 4.5 hour drive of his in-laws in Ohio. And I don't beleive its the truth. In the end, the potential is at least intriguing, the move good for women's volleyball, and it doesn't matter what I think. But its pushing a rock up a steep hill (again), and will take time. If the move happens, a very interesting decision imo. Add "be careful what you wish for" cliche to above. Wishing UW a great hire, and continued success. Agreed. I hope, at the very least, the U-Dub program can bounce back with a top coach! I just don't see JMac finding the success he had at Washington. Will he really challenge Rose, Cook, Shondell, McCutcheon, or even Skinner for Midwest recruits? Are there any recruits from the above-mentioned coaches that would have picked JMac over them if he was at a program closer to their homes? If academics and reputation was important for nearby recruits, I'd pick Northwestern and Purdue instead or go to the Ivy League over ND. If playing in front of a big crowd was appealing, I'd choose Nebraska, Hawaii, or Washington over ND. Will he still land T Street girls? I wonder if any of his Cali recruits just wanted to play somewhat close to home, or maybe they loved Seattle. If that's the case, it'll be tough getting Cali players like that to go out to South Bend.
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Post by zenyada on Jan 9, 2015 19:15:23 GMT -5
I think this first paragraph, for some reason, works for me as I try to figure out his thinking process. Often, decisions are made based on pure emotional reactions to what just recently happened and, in JMac's case, the disappointment in the NCAAs -- in particular, the loss to what many considered a flawed Nebraska team -- in recent years must've weighed heavily. Perhaps he thought, "Well, this is as far as I can go here." Your other paragraphs, though interesting and valid, don't pack the same emotional punch as your first paragraph. I don't think you can discount the family connection. The McLaughlin's have young daughters and his wife's parents are driving distance from Notre Dame. Plus his wife attended ND and played sports there. Having your children be close to their grandparents can become a very big deal after a couple years of missed Thanksgivings and Christmases and birthdays, etc. I wouldn't discount that factor. Plus if it's considerably more money and later-life financial security by returning to a campus that probably evokes very fond memories for his wife....and a great university....this isn't the head-scratcher some are making it seem. McLaughlin has never displayed any evidence of making big changes based on one win or one loss. He is not the type to make emotional decisions based on a game. a) Love family, love the grandparents. But Cincy, Cleveland, and Columbus are all 4+ hours drive time from SB, so let's be real, it's not likely this move will mean they're close enough to add significantly more time with the kids. Not like they're in town for gosh sakes. And who says they were missing Thanksgivings and Christmas'? JM could've flown them in for every holiday. b) I know many athletes who played sports at major colleges, and they 're not pining to move back and relive the glory years. You're reaching imo. c) Typically executives don't move across country to take risks like this for an additional net maybe $30-40k per year when they're already vesting retirements with every year. They know they're one bad investment from that gain being washed away. But you're right about all the things we're likely to hear.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Jan 9, 2015 19:24:16 GMT -5
Love the concept of human free will, and admire people taking on risks and challenges-in-life, and wish the classy JM the very best. But the personal journey stuff aside, for me JM taking the ND job would be a head scratcher. For other capable coaches in less desirable roles, absolutely a great opportunity. Could the December 12th match have possibly gotten into his head? This conjures up a delusional "grass-is-greener" reaction for me. JM-Malibu might relate to "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone"..another JM. Money- I don't believe money is the reason. Indiana has fixed 3.5% state income tax, not large, but still. Washington, none. At $274,000+ per year, you have a very nice lifestyle in Seattle. It's not going to get better in South Bend, and no significantly greater generational wealth is going to be created over the same period after taxes. Academics: Washington is considered a top research university and one of the "Public Ivies". Notre Dame has national brand cache on the job market, but in Seattle you're schooling in one of the top job markets in the US, with Amazon, Microsoft, Starbucks, Nordstrom and many others. Attendance: No doubt JM benefitted from large crowds at UW with recruits. UW / Seattle's passion for VB surpasses South Bend's. Washington averaged 3,000 at home, ND 1,000. Student's UW-44,000; ND-12,000. Southbend 100,000 population. The ND gym going to feel empty, and wish him luck creating the same energy. He'll be recruiting more directly with Nebraska, sellouts, 8,000 per? Lincoln, 285,000 pop. Location works both ways: ND is surrounded by volleyball traditions at Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigans, Kentucky, Louisville. The notion that he's going to "move-in" and consistently "pluck" future top recruits from top coaches and programs is ambitious to say the least. Not to mention PSU and Nebraska selling into the same group. How does this result in "easier" and/or superior result than recruiting into UW and competing in the Pac-12? VB Population: A move based on the belief that the Midwest has more talented club players to draw from seems flawed at least based on population stats for vb states, and trend toward international players. CA + WA, OR, UT, CO, HA = 58 M pop. IN + Il, MN,MI ,KY ,OH= 38 M. How'd the Under Armour game go for the east? He already had looks at top Canadian players at UW. Maybe he thinks there is just more height to coach up? We could get into a long discussion on Pac-12 speed vs B1G size in a Rose Bowl and basketball context, and I think that argument would get diffused. Exposure: The value of ESPN's ACC TV coverage seems a bit uncertain and far-off to give great stock, and this motivator assumes a burgeoning talent pool in the east, so its curious if this weighed heavily in a decision. In-laws: I don't beleive JM told his team that this this decision was made based on his family's desire to be within a 4.5 hour drive of his in-laws in Ohio. And I don't beleive its the truth. In the end, the potential is at least intriguing, the move good for women's volleyball, and it doesn't matter what I think. But its pushing a rock up a steep hill (again), and will take time. If the move happens, a very interesting decision imo. Add "be careful what you wish for" cliche to above. Wishing UW a great hire, and continued success. Agreed. I hope, at the very least, the U-Dub program can bounce back with a top coach! I just don't see JMac finding the success he had at Washington. Will he really challenge Rose, Cook, Shondell, McCutcheon, or even Skinner for Midwest recruits? Are there any recruits from the above-mentioned coaches that would have picked JMac over them if he was at a program closer to their homes? If academics and reputation was important for nearby recruits, I'd pick Northwestern and Purdue instead or go to the Ivy League over ND. If playing in front of a big crowd was appealing, I'd choose Nebraska, Hawaii, or Washington over ND. Will he still land T Street girls? I wonder if any of his Cali recruits just wanted to play somewhat close to home, or maybe they loved Seattle. If that's the case, it'll be tough getting Cali players like that to go out to South Bend. You ask will he get t-stree girls or cali girls, but you don't acknowledge that they couldnt get indiana, ohio, kentucky, illinois, minnesota, North Carolina, Florida kids. They were getting the kids they could based on where they are, and were pretty limited in terms of where they could get top kids from. You can get kids from anywhere to ND, you cant at UW. Also, Nebraska and Hawaii are totally unique situations, and they werent packing them in at UW before he turned that around. While Northwestern and Purdue are great institutions, they dont have the combination of things ND has, and neither does UW. You mention different parts of different programs having some things better than ND, but in terms of the whole package of attracting top female vb players, who has it better? Stanford. How many have it as good? If people stop looking at what it is now, and see what it has the near unlimited potential to be, this is an incredible job, and ND is clearly all-in.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Jan 9, 2015 19:27:16 GMT -5
I don't think you can discount the family connection. The McLaughlin's have young daughters and his wife's parents are driving distance from Notre Dame. Plus his wife attended ND and played sports there. Having your children be close to their grandparents can become a very big deal after a couple years of missed Thanksgivings and Christmases and birthdays, etc. I wouldn't discount that factor. Plus if it's considerably more money and later-life financial security by returning to a campus that probably evokes very fond memories for his wife....and a great university....this isn't the head-scratcher some are making it seem. McLaughlin has never displayed any evidence of making big changes based on one win or one loss. He is not the type to make emotional decisions based on a game. a) Love family, love the grandparents. But Cincy, Cleveland, and Columbus are all 4+ hours drive time from SB, so let's be real, it's not likely this move will mean they're close enough to add significantly more time with the kids. Not like they're in town for gosh sakes. And who says they were missing Thanksgivings and Christmas'? JM could've flown them in for every holiday. b) I know many athletes who played sports at major colleges, and they 're not pining to move back and relive the glory years. You're reaching imo. c) Typically executives don't move across country to take risks like this for an additional net maybe $30-40k per year when they're already vesting retirements with every year. They know they're one bad investment from that gain being washed away. But you're right about all the things we're likely to hear. I'm sure his wife having went there is nice, and grandparents near by is nice too, but he didnt make this decision as a lifestyle choice. He is a very motivated and driven professional, who wants to win as bad as anyone. I'm sure he got a nice bump in pay that maybe UW couldnt match, but certainly couldve competed with. He is going to ND to try and win titles, and he can
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Post by johnbar on Jan 9, 2015 19:29:03 GMT -5
c) Typically executives don't move across country to take risks like this for an additional net maybe $30-40k per year when they're already vesting retirements with every year. They know they're one bad investment from that gain being washed away. Not sure a pension would figure into a coach's decision. Certainly it varies, but university faculty and staff typically pay pre-tax dollars into a retirement account and receive a matching contribution from their university. It's a defined contribution plan, not defined benefit. Many universities use the same plans (used to be TIAA-CREF was most popular, now seems more like Fidelity, etc.). So one can relocate and still be paying into the same plan.
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Post by zenyada on Jan 9, 2015 19:51:17 GMT -5
Agreed. I hope, at the very least, the U-Dub program can bounce back with a top coach! I just don't see JMac finding the success he had at Washington. Will he really challenge Rose, Cook, Shondell, McCutcheon, or even Skinner for Midwest recruits? Are there any recruits from the above-mentioned coaches that would have picked JMac over them if he was at a program closer to their homes? If academics and reputation was important for nearby recruits, I'd pick Northwestern and Purdue instead or go to the Ivy League over ND. If playing in front of a big crowd was appealing, I'd choose Nebraska, Hawaii, or Washington over ND. Will he still land T Street girls? I wonder if any of his Cali recruits just wanted to play somewhat close to home, or maybe they loved Seattle. If that's the case, it'll be tough getting Cali players like that to go out to South Bend. You ask will he get t-stree girls or cali girls, but you don't acknowledge that they couldnt get indiana, ohio, kentucky, illinois, minnesota, North Carolina, Florida kids. They were getting the kids they could based on where they are, and were pretty limited in terms of where they could get top kids from. You can get kids from anywhere to ND, you cant at UW. Also, Nebraska and Hawaii are totally unique situations, and they werent packing them in at UW before he turned that around. While Northwestern and Purdue are great institutions, they dont have the combination of things ND has, and neither does UW. You mention different parts of different programs having some things better than ND, but in terms of the whole package of attracting top female vb players, who has it better? Stanford. How many have it as good? If people stop looking at what it is now, and see what it has the near unlimited potential to be, this is an incredible job, and ND is clearly all-in. South Bend is a great platform, but its not for everyone either. UW has no international players on their roster, is that because UW is not a draw or because JM chose not to recruit them? You make it sound like not getting a NC was strictly a UW issue. But there were also choices made. Not that its essential, but pretty sure if Cook can recruit Illinois to Lincoln, a number would also consider Seattle. JM did a terrific job at UW, but all roads dont lead to SB. How's football been going the last twenty years? I'll tell you...a lot of potential unrealized.
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Post by zenyada on Jan 9, 2015 20:03:19 GMT -5
c) Typically executives don't move across country to take risks like this for an additional net maybe $30-40k per year when they're already vesting retirements with every year. They know they're one bad investment from that gain being washed away. Not sure a pension would figure into a coach's decision. Certainly it varies, but university faculty and staff typically pay pre-tax dollars into a retirement account and receive a matching contribution from their university. It's a defined contribution plan, not defined benefit. Many universities use the same plans (used to be TIAA-CREF was most popular, now seems more like Fidelity, etc.). So one can relocate and still be paying into the same plan. Thank you, you're right and my point could have been more direct which is that net , net seems the risks of ditching what you've built usually come with greater reward, based only on the speculation on pay I've read here.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Jan 9, 2015 20:05:00 GMT -5
Not sure a pension would figure into a coach's decision. Certainly it varies, but university faculty and staff typically pay pre-tax dollars into a retirement account and receive a matching contribution from their university. It's a defined contribution plan, not defined benefit. Many universities use the same plans (used to be TIAA-CREF was most popular, now seems more like Fidelity, etc.). So one can relocate and still be paying into the same plan. Thank you, you're right and my point could have been more direct which is that net , net seems the risks of ditching what you've built usually come with greater reward, based only on the speculation on pay I've read here. You are aware that Nebraska and Illinois are separated by only one state aren't you?
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