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Post by vbnerd on Jan 11, 2015 12:55:02 GMT -5
Players from Hawaii and Long Beach have won in the past but I think you need to prove that you are legit and not a product of a week schedule. Products of a weak schedule? Do you even know who these Players of the Year were? lol. When the players you mention were playing, with the exception of Kim Willoughby, they WERE playing the best schedules in the country. In fact, many of these players went on to represent the United States in the Olympic games. None of the 10 were products of a weak schedule. Have another cup of coffee and read it again. My point was that you didn't necessarily have to be from the Pac 12 or play for Nebraska or Penn State, that their benefit is that their schedule is beyond reproach, so another school can win if they play a demanding schedule. Long Beach and Hawaii were mentioned to support that point. |
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Post by vbnerd on Jan 11, 2015 12:58:31 GMT -5
Was Cepero a sophomore for Nebraska when she won it back in the early 2000's? That's the only underclassman I can recall... And she may have been a junior(??). Good catch. I was scanning the releases and mistook "setter" for "senior" but yeah, she was just a sophomore. So I guess there is one since 1996. |
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Post by timduckforlife on Jan 12, 2015 16:17:27 GMT -5
If you want to have a conversation about the best player in college volleyball, that is all well and good but if you want to have a conversation about the AVCA POY there are unwritten roles that we need to be aware of. - As has been mentioned, they need to make the final four. The last player to win the Award without playing in the final four is Stacy Gordon in 2004, who went out in the regional final with 44 kills in a 5 set match. She had 7+ kpg that season, one of 5 players to ever do that (her and Willoughby took POY), and They made her share the award. That's a pretty high standard and one that I'm not sure Carlini specifically, as a setter, has the ability to meet. - 6 of the last 7 winners were Seniors and looking at the AVCA releases back to 1996 NO underclassman has won the award (correction 1 has, Ceparo). -Since Christina Houghtelling, who had been bothered by injuries, each POY had already been an All-American before their POY season, so you can pretty much focus on the returning AA's when figuring this out. -Stacy Gordon is also the last player not from the Pac 10/12, Nebraska or Penn State to win the honor. Players from Hawaii and Long Beach have won in the past but I think you need to prove that you are legit and not a product of a week schedule. -After Pavan, Akinradewo and Fawcette, there have been 6 winners in a row who have been 6 rotation players. Apparently Holman isn't playing, so she is out. Who is unlikely to be going to the final four? Lauren Carlini, Jocelyn Birks and Macey Gardner Who will still be an underclassman? Ali Franti, Rhamat Alhassan, Haleigh Washington, MK Marshall Who has not been an AVCA AA yet? Megan Courtney Who needs a beefy schedule to overcome not being from Penn State, Nebraska or the Pac 12? Chiaka Ogbogu, Alex Holston, Nicole Walsh, Alexa Grey Who doesn't play 6 rotations? Aiyana Whitney Inky Ajanakou Ebony Nwanebou Which leaves us with... Madi Bugg Jordan Burgess (and if you are a believer in USC, Sam Bricio) Of course, as my broker tells me "past results are no guarantee of future performance" so fee free to come to your own conclusions. good points. However, I still think Inky would get the nod over Bugg and Burgess at this point. She's the best player. Granted, a lot can change in a year. Burgess could become their go to hitter beyond just their go to pin hitter. And I completely agree that since the part of the requirement is essentially being in the F4, i'ts a pretty premature statement. And as thus, the best educated guess that we will be able to give is Stanford and Penn State. Thus, I'd say Inky and Courtney as the 2 favs. Carlini, IMO, is still the best player in the country. But as someone said, difficult to return to the F4 when you lost 7 seniors. |
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Post by MTC on Jan 12, 2015 17:10:45 GMT -5
Difficult but not impossible if she can stay healthy.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jan 12, 2015 17:12:28 GMT -5
Aiyana Whitney may have a compelling case. I think she gets set a bit more next year as PSU's backrow losses move the offense a bit more to the pins, especially if they use Courtney like they did in the regular season.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Jan 12, 2015 17:18:55 GMT -5
If you want to have a conversation about the best player in college volleyball, that is all well and good but if you want to have a conversation about the AVCA POY there are unwritten roles that we need to be aware of. - As has been mentioned, they need to make the final four. The last player to win the Award without playing in the final four is Stacy Gordon in 2004, who went out in the regional final with 44 kills in a 5 set match. She had 7+ kpg that season, one of 5 players to ever do that (her and Willoughby took POY), and They made her share the award. That's a pretty high standard and one that I'm not sure Carlini specifically, as a setter, has the ability to meet. - 6 of the last 7 winners were Seniors and looking at the AVCA releases back to 1996 NO underclassman has won the award (correction 1 has, Ceparo). -Since Christina Houghtelling, who had been bothered by injuries, each POY had already been an All-American before their POY season, so you can pretty much focus on the returning AA's when figuring this out. -Stacy Gordon is also the last player not from the Pac 10/12, Nebraska or Penn State to win the honor. Players from Hawaii and Long Beach have won in the past but I think you need to prove that you are legit and not a product of a week schedule. -After Pavan, Akinradewo and Fawcette, there have been 6 winners in a row who have been 6 rotation players. Apparently Holman isn't playing, so she is out. Who is unlikely to be going to the final four? Lauren Carlini, Jocelyn Birks and Macey Gardner Who will still be an underclassman? Ali Franti, Rhamat Alhassan, Haleigh Washington, MK Marshall Who has not been an AVCA AA yet? Megan Courtney Who needs a beefy schedule to overcome not being from Penn State, Nebraska or the Pac 12? Chiaka Ogbogu, Alex Holston, Nicole Walsh, Alexa Grey Who doesn't play 6 rotations? Aiyana Whitney Inky Ajanakou Ebony Nwanebou Which leaves us with... Madi Bugg Jordan Burgess (and if you are a believer in USC, Sam Bricio) Of course, as my broker tells me "past results are no guarantee of future performance" so fee free to come to your own conclusions. good points. However, I still think Inky would get the nod over Bugg and Burgess at this point. She's the best player. Granted, a lot can change in a year. Burgess could become their go to hitter beyond just their go to pin hitter. And I completely agree that since the part of the requirement is essentially being in the F4, i'ts a pretty premature statement. And as thus, the best educated guess that we will be able to give is Stanford and Penn State. Thus, I'd say Inky and Courtney as the 2 favs. Carlini, IMO, is still the best player in the country. But as someone said, difficult to return to the F4 when you lost 7 seniors. Courtney was not only not an AA, she wasnt all-conference honorable mention. I think she is a remarkable player, but going into the NCAA's a lot of people would have seen her as somewhat of a concern in terms of getting the job done. Obviously she went bonkers at the FF, but a weekend doesnt a POY make. I would say right now, she is less likely than Washington to be POY. If she is an AA its going to be a Keau Burdine type of all-american, good offensive stats, but her all around game demands she makes AA. Those playes dont win POY. Vansant, Lowe, Gordon numbers win POY. If you are anticipating her hitting .350 with 5 kills pg, I think you are expecting too much. |
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Post by bballnut90 on Jan 12, 2015 19:38:06 GMT -5
good points. However, I still think Inky would get the nod over Bugg and Burgess at this point. She's the best player. Granted, a lot can change in a year. Burgess could become their go to hitter beyond just their go to pin hitter. And I completely agree that since the part of the requirement is essentially being in the F4, i'ts a pretty premature statement. And as thus, the best educated guess that we will be able to give is Stanford and Penn State. Thus, I'd say Inky and Courtney as the 2 favs. Carlini, IMO, is still the best player in the country. But as someone said, difficult to return to the F4 when you lost 7 seniors. Courtney was not only not an AA, she wasnt all-conference honorable mention. I think she is a remarkable player, but going into the NCAA's a lot of people would have seen her as somewhat of a concern in terms of getting the job done. Obviously she went bonkers at the FF, but a weekend doesnt a POY make. I would say right now, she is less likely than Washington to be POY. If she is an AA its going to be a Keau Burdine type of all-american, good offensive stats, but her all around game demands she makes AA. Those playes dont win POY. Vansant, Lowe, Gordon numbers win POY. If you are anticipating her hitting .350 with 5 kills pg, I think you are expecting too much. When Courtney is on, she is one of the best offensive outsides in the nation. She can tear up any defense when she's playing her best, I don't think that's the case for Burdine, Burgess, or other outsides. She has a great arm swing, hits from a high contact point and can hit great shots. She's just so inconsistent. If she plays more consistently, I could definitely see her hitting between .320-.350 and being a major POY candidate. That's a BIG if though, and something she hasn't proven capable of accomplishing at this point in her career. |
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Post by bballnut90 on Jan 12, 2015 19:45:46 GMT -5
If you want to have a conversation about the best player in college volleyball, that is all well and good but if you want to have a conversation about the AVCA POY there are unwritten roles that we need to be aware of. - As has been mentioned, they need to make the final four. The last player to win the Award without playing in the final four is Stacy Gordon in 2004, who went out in the regional final with 44 kills in a 5 set match. She had 7+ kpg that season, one of 5 players to ever do that (her and Willoughby took POY), and They made her share the award. That's a pretty high standard and one that I'm not sure Carlini specifically, as a setter, has the ability to meet. - 6 of the last 7 winners were Seniors and looking at the AVCA releases back to 1996 NO underclassman has won the award (correction 1 has, Ceparo). -Since Christina Houghtelling, who had been bothered by injuries, each POY had already been an All-American before their POY season, so you can pretty much focus on the returning AA's when figuring this out. -Stacy Gordon is also the last player not from the Pac 10/12, Nebraska or Penn State to win the honor. Players from Hawaii and Long Beach have won in the past but I think you need to prove that you are legit and not a product of a week schedule. -After Pavan, Akinradewo and Fawcette, there have been 6 winners in a row who have been 6 rotation players. Apparently Holman isn't playing, so she is out. Who is unlikely to be going to the final four? Lauren Carlini, Jocelyn Birks and Macey Gardner Who will still be an underclassman? Ali Franti, Rhamat Alhassan, Haleigh Washington, MK Marshall Who has not been an AVCA AA yet? Megan Courtney Who needs a beefy schedule to overcome not being from Penn State, Nebraska or the Pac 12? Chiaka Ogbogu, Alex Holston, Nicole Walsh, Alexa Grey Who doesn't play 6 rotations? Aiyana Whitney Inky Ajanakou Ebony Nwanebou Which leaves us with... Madi Bugg Jordan Burgess (and if you are a believer in USC, Sam Bricio) Of course, as my broker tells me "past results are no guarantee of future performance" so fee free to come to your own conclusions. Couple things to note--Fawcett was 6 rotations as a senior. Nwanebu will most likely play 6 rotations next year as well. And as far as Bricio and Nwanebu, I did forget about those two, but both of those would fall into the category of players unlikely to be at the Final Four. I also wouldn't categorize Carlini as unlikely to play in the Final Four. Outside of Penn State and Stanford, I don't see any teams you can make a strong argument that they'll be better than Wisconsin next year. The only other ones that I believe will be on par are Nebraska (big if with new setter and inconsistent middles), and Texas (who stockpiles talent but consistently underperforms). Actually, for that matter, I'd throw Birks in that group too, as Illinois will be LOADED next year and has Poulter running things along with their great libero, Birks and Stadick returning. |
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Post by dorothymantooth on Jan 12, 2015 20:03:08 GMT -5
Courtney was not only not an AA, she wasnt all-conference honorable mention. I think she is a remarkable player, but going into the NCAA's a lot of people would have seen her as somewhat of a concern in terms of getting the job done. Obviously she went bonkers at the FF, but a weekend doesnt a POY make. I would say right now, she is less likely than Washington to be POY. If she is an AA its going to be a Keau Burdine type of all-american, good offensive stats, but her all around game demands she makes AA. Those playes dont win POY. Vansant, Lowe, Gordon numbers win POY. If you are anticipating her hitting .350 with 5 kills pg, I think you are expecting too much. When Courtney is on, she is one of the best offensive outsides in the nation. She can tear up any defense when she's playing her best, I don't think that's the case for Burdine, Burgess, or other outsides. She has a great arm swing, hits from a high contact point and can hit great shots. She's just so inconsistent. If she plays more consistently, I could definitely see her hitting between .320-.350 and being a major POY candidate. That's a BIG if though, and something she hasn't proven capable of accomplishing at this point in her career. We certainly all got to see what she is capable of. She has to play at that level consistently and she has to be able to do it without Micha on the floor as well. I love her as a solid AA candidate she has some proving to do be a POY candidate. Marvelous player and was probably PSU's best "volleyball player" |
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Post by timduckforlife on Jan 12, 2015 20:25:52 GMT -5
Courtney was not only not an AA, she wasnt all-conference honorable mention. I think she is a remarkable player, but going into the NCAA's a lot of people would have seen her as somewhat of a concern in terms of getting the job done. Obviously she went bonkers at the FF, but a weekend doesnt a POY make. I would say right now, she is less likely than Washington to be POY. If she is an AA its going to be a Keau Burdine type of all-american, good offensive stats, but her all around game demands she makes AA. Those playes dont win POY. Vansant, Lowe, Gordon numbers win POY. If you are anticipating her hitting .350 with 5 kills pg, I think you are expecting too much. When Courtney is on, she is one of the best offensive outsides in the nation. She can tear up any defense when she's playing her best, I don't think that's the case for Burdine, Burgess, or other outsides. She has a great arm swing, hits from a high contact point and can hit great shots. She's just so inconsistent. If she plays more consistently, I could definitely see her hitting between .320-.350 and being a major POY candidate. That's a BIG if though, and something she hasn't proven capable of accomplishing at this point in her career. I just think Courtney has that chance. Let's face it, it has been Micha's team, and IMO, now it becomes Meghans team. And while there might be more people with more talent than her. Not that she doesn't have amazing talent and skills, but she also has one of the most important things, time and experience. She has put in the time and needs to take that next step and lead her team on another title run. I think she can do it. And I think next year she gains that consistency that propels her teams. Granted thats just my opinion among a sea of opinions. And again, I think the only 2 teams, at this point, that you can really point to being F4 teams are PSU and Stanford. Thus, Courtney and Inky are my 2 picks. |
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Post by network155 on Jan 12, 2015 20:40:16 GMT -5
Products of a weak schedule? Do you even know who these Players of the Year were? lol. When the players you mention were playing, with the exception of Kim Willoughby, they WERE playing the best schedules in the country. In fact, many of these players went on to represent the United States in the Olympic games. None of the 10 were products of a weak schedule. Have another cup of coffee and read it again. My point was that you didn't necessarily have to be from the Pac 12 or play for Nebraska or Penn State, that their benefit is that their schedule is beyond reproach, so another school can win if they play a demanding schedule. Long Beach and Hawaii were mentioned to support that point. Back then, the Big West was the top conference in the country. Hawaii, Long Beach State, Pacific were basically vying for the national title. But it's really interesting how a different conference rises to the top every decade. From the Big West to the Pac-10 (now Pac-12) and now Big 10. |
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Post by dorothymantooth on Jan 12, 2015 20:54:59 GMT -5
When Courtney is on, she is one of the best offensive outsides in the nation. She can tear up any defense when she's playing her best, I don't think that's the case for Burdine, Burgess, or other outsides. She has a great arm swing, hits from a high contact point and can hit great shots. She's just so inconsistent. If she plays more consistently, I could definitely see her hitting between .320-.350 and being a major POY candidate. That's a BIG if though, and something she hasn't proven capable of accomplishing at this point in her career. I just think Courtney has that chance. Let's face it, it has been Micha's team, and IMO, now it becomes Meghans team. And while there might be more people with more talent than her. Not that she doesn't have amazing talent and skills, but she also has one of the most important things, time and experience. She has put in the time and needs to take that next step and lead her team on another title run. I think she can do it. And I think next year she gains that consistency that propels her teams. Granted thats just my opinion among a sea of opinions. And again, I think the only 2 teams, at this point, that you can really point to being F4 teams are PSU and Stanford. Thus, Courtney and Inky are my 2 picks. You are forgetting about Washington who based on last season is going to put up as good or better numbers as anyone in the country. I'd bet on her before Courtney |
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Post by network155 on Jan 12, 2015 21:00:23 GMT -5
Please lets not downplay Courtney, she is good as advertised. I think Carlini might win the honor the next two seasons (of course if Wisconsin makes back to the Final Four).
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Post by memorybankrupt on Jan 12, 2015 22:20:42 GMT -5
Courtney was not only not an AA, she wasnt all-conference honorable mention. I think she is a remarkable player, but going into the NCAA's a lot of people would have seen her as somewhat of a concern in terms of getting the job done. Obviously she went bonkers at the FF, but a weekend doesnt a POY make. I would say right now, she is less likely than Washington to be POY. If she is an AA its going to be a Keau Burdine type of all-american, good offensive stats, but her all around game demands she makes AA. Those playes dont win POY. Vansant, Lowe, Gordon numbers win POY. If you are anticipating her hitting .350 with 5 kills pg, I think you are expecting too much. When Courtney is on, she is one of the best offensive outsides in the nation. She can tear up any defense when she's playing her best, I don't think that's the case for Burdine, Burgess, or other outsides. She has a great arm swing, hits from a high contact point and can hit great shots. She's just so inconsistent. If she plays more consistently, I could definitely see her hitting between .320-.350 and being a major POY candidate. That's a BIG if though, and something she hasn't proven capable of accomplishing at this point in her career. The Burdine comparison could be apt. Don't you recall that Burdine could get really hot and "tear up" the defense when she won 2 National titles and was voted MVP of the FF twice? In her senior year, she also led her team to upset the favored Nebraska team in the Regional Finals. I don't disagree w/ the rest of what you're saying. |
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Post by naujack85 on Jan 13, 2015 0:20:18 GMT -5
When Courtney is on, she is one of the best offensive outsides in the nation. She can tear up any defense when she's playing her best, I don't think that's the case for Burdine, Burgess, or other outsides. She has a great arm swing, hits from a high contact point and can hit great shots. She's just so inconsistent. If she plays more consistently, I could definitely see her hitting between .320-.350 and being a major POY candidate. That's a BIG if though, and something she hasn't proven capable of accomplishing at this point in her career. The Burdine comparison could be apt. Don't you recall that Burdine could get really hot and "tear up" the defense when she won 2 National titles and was voted MVP of the FF twice? In her senior year, she also led her team to upset the favored Nebraska team in the Regional Finals. I don't disagree w/ the rest of what you're saying. Everyone drinking this Courtney Kool Aid needs to read this sentence. In 2014, Megan Courtney hit .237 in conference and averaged 2.14 kps. Those are hideous numbers. Clearly, Megan has shown that she can perform at a very high level at times, but she would need to have a near meteoric rise in production and efficiency to deserve to even be in the conversation for POY next year. And the comparison to Burdine is laughable. She was a two time All - American and two time Finals MVP on a team that would have ravaged this years PSU team. If Courtney was on that team she would have been ridden the bench. |
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