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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 16:50:37 GMT -5
Yeah, and college camps aren't a complete moneymaker too. Sure they are but an individual college is not THE face of volleyball in the US. To be honest its not about the money, it's how they (USAV) treat PEOPLE!
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Post by dorothymantooth on Jan 28, 2015 16:56:14 GMT -5
USA volleyball is extremely committed to developing top players, introducing them to international play. The tryouts are of course to identify those kids, but also to fund those programs. In most cases volleyball clubs are no different.
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Post by coachl on Jan 28, 2015 19:57:52 GMT -5
I have asked two D1 coaches (B1G and Pac-12) about the merits of the USAVolleyball high performance program for up and coming "kids."
While both were reluctant to comment, they both ultimately replied to not bother.
Can you share your views and/or experiences? ALL of the USA Volleyball's programs are a complete scam/money maker. They DO NOT care about the players! I have first hand experience with them over a number of years and I always hoped things would change BUT they haven't. HP and everything else are simply money makers for the national team. There are a FEW ok people in the system like Heath Hoke but overall, the level of ego and sense of "You are lucky to be apart of USA Volleyball" has not changed in my 8 years of off and on involvement. It appears it may never change. Do yourself and your kid a favor and stay clear! Did your daughter miss out on one of the top programs?
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Post by outwest1 on Jan 28, 2015 22:16:20 GMT -5
I am sure the parents of Harmotto, Foluke, Larson, Fawcett , Hodge and others were very upset at having to pay that tryout fee so their daughters could get a jump on international competition as teenagers. Yes, the reality is that they needed the other lower level player tryout fees at that same tryout to fund their trip to a youth or junior World Championship to gain that valuable experience. Seems like the HP program may be working.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 22:26:37 GMT -5
Yeah, and college camps aren't a complete moneymaker too. ..don't forget the thousands being paid to the club coaches. * * * Clearly people have axes to grind with USA Volleyball....
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Post by Ralph Kramden on Jan 29, 2015 3:31:32 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that there are axes to grind, rather it might be about the tryout experiences at the various levels. At the youth level I think the club coaches need to do a better job of telling the players and their parents where their child's skill level truly is. If they did a better job of filtering there wouldn't be the sour grapes. The only part of the program that I consider a sham is the developmental program; which is offered to most of the kids who have even a basic skill level.
On the collegiate side, most of the girls know they don't have a great shot of making the national team, but do it anyway because they are competitors who want to see how they truly stack up against the best. If they make the A1 or A2 team they'll have a great experience.
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Post by s0uthie on Jan 29, 2015 17:14:12 GMT -5
The HP Camps I have coached for are some of the best camps I've seen because they are invite only. The tryout process can be something of a "cattle call" as has been mentioned, but they still do a good job of choosing the players to attend the HP Camp. Those camps have many of the best coaches in the region (along with, admittedly, some of the "good ol' boys") and most importantly a majority of the best players in the region to compete against. Everyone plays a TON of volleyball for 4 days and leaves exhausted. The tryout process might be a pain, but they usually run pretty smooth and they will typically err on the side of bringing in a girl on the margins vs. not inviting her to camp. This makes them some money, yes, but it also allows that girl the chance to grow from her experience.
Every college camp I've worked has at minimum a half-day where nothing gets done except trying to sort kids by talent level. Then there are several sets of parents who complain about where their kid ends up and the head coach has to find a way to appease them. The ones who complain are never the ones being looked at for scholarships.
Basically, what I'm saying is that if you attend these camps with the correct attitude and perspective, you will leave a better volleyball player. If the cost of the tryout, travel, camp, and tournament (if you're selected for a team) is worth it to you... pay the money. In my opinion, you won't find many experiences that are better.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Jan 29, 2015 17:25:22 GMT -5
Yeah, and college camps aren't a complete moneymaker too. ..don't forget the thousands being paid to the club coaches. * * * Clearly people have axes to grind with USA Volleyball.... Club coaches shouldn't get paid?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 19:45:30 GMT -5
..don't forget the thousands being paid to the club coaches. * * * Clearly people have axes to grind with USA Volleyball.... Club coaches shouldn't get paid? I didn't say that--but to complain about USA HP money when clubs are costing kids $8k+/year seems a bit outrageous.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Jan 29, 2015 19:50:08 GMT -5
Club coaches shouldn't get paid? I didn't say that--but to complain about USA HP money when clubs are costing kids $8k+/year seems a bit outrageous. while that may be the cost to play in the club that money is hardly going to the club coach. I dont think the cost of the tryout at the qualifiers is outrageous, I don't think it is a very good value for 90% of the kids there.
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Post by midnightblue on Jan 29, 2015 20:16:07 GMT -5
We recommend USA HP try outs. Why not? It is an opportunity for young players to compete and to be evaluated among their peers. If a player is selected to the A1 (&A2?), the HP Championships provide the chance for players to compete against older players and often international teams. Players get the chance to have their weaknesses exposed, their strengths refined and the knowledge of the game deepened, their people skills enhanced and their vision about their potential fit in the volleyball scheme of things enlarged. Girls also become more independent by living with other girls and being away from home. *I do think that players ought to attend their favorite/dream schools college summer college camps as a way of testing the college recruiting waters. None of this is inexpensive, as anyone with a daughter playing club volleyball knows. But neither is swimming, golf, tennis, ballet, theater, art, robotics, etc. I think the economists refer to such expenses as opportunity costs. Or kids who play Hockey for that matter! I'm a Chicago native (I'd like to clarify that I do, in fact, live IN Chicago--lots of people who come from the 'burbs like to pretend). And Chicago is a HUGE hockey town. For kids to play at the HS level (almost exclusively private Catholic schools), their fee FOR A HS team is in the thousands of dollars for ice time.. that doesn't include club fees in the off season. It's insane.
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Post by midnightblue on Jan 29, 2015 20:17:57 GMT -5
I have asked two D1 coaches (B1G and Pac-12) about the merits of the USAVolleyball high performance program for up and coming "kids."
While both were reluctant to comment, they both ultimately replied to not bother.
Can you share your views and/or experiences? ALL of the USA Volleyball's programs are a complete scam/money maker. They DO NOT care about the players! I have first hand experience with them over a number of years and I always hoped things would change BUT they haven't. HP and everything else are simply money makers for the national team. There are a FEW ok people in the system like Heath Hoke but overall, the level of ego and sense of "You are lucky to be apart of USA Volleyball" has not changed in my 8 years of off and on involvement. It appears it may never change. Do yourself and your kid a favor and stay clear! Tell that to Kim Hill who was 'discovered' at the tryout and was just named the MVP of the second most important volleyball tournament in the world.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 0:32:41 GMT -5
I didn't say that--but to complain about USA HP money when clubs are costing kids $8k+/year seems a bit outrageous. while that may be the cost to play in the club that money is hardly going to the club coach. I dont think the cost of the tryout at the qualifiers is outrageous, I don't think it is a very good value for 90% of the kids there. But I'd argue that 90% of the clubs out there are poor value for players. To complain about a tryout fee or the cost of a camp when parents are paying $450 for four days at a single college (and likely getting a hs coach or current player working with their child), etc...that seems silly. And the supervision/quality control at HP camps of the coaches is FAR more than I've seen at any college camp.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Jan 30, 2015 1:00:31 GMT -5
while that may be the cost to play in the club that money is hardly going to the club coach. I dont think the cost of the tryout at the qualifiers is outrageous, I don't think it is a very good value for 90% of the kids there. But I'd argue that 90% of the clubs out there are poor value for players. To complain about a tryout fee or the cost of a camp when parents are paying $450 for four days at a single college (and likely getting a hs coach or current player working with their child), etc...that seems silly. And the supervision/quality control at HP camps of the coaches is FAR more than I've seen at any college camp. Camps in many ways are like the HP program. If you are an elite player at a good college camp, you are going to be on the floor with other exceptional players and coached by a staff member. The rest of the kids are going to have a very different and inferior experience. For the best kids HP is a great program, at the lower levels, it really isnt all that different than going to a collegiate camp.
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Post by bayarea on Jan 30, 2015 2:09:07 GMT -5
ALL of the USA Volleyball's programs are a complete scam/money maker. They DO NOT care about the players! I have first hand experience with them over a number of years and I always hoped things would change BUT they haven't. HP and everything else are simply money makers for the national team. There are a FEW ok people in the system like Heath Hoke but overall, the level of ego and sense of "You are lucky to be apart of USA Volleyball" has not changed in my 8 years of off and on involvement. It appears it may never change. Do yourself and your kid a favor and stay clear! Tell that to Kim Hill who was 'discovered' at the tryout and was just named the MVP of the second most important volleyball tournament in the world. To be fair, Kim was something like the #8 Senior Ace in her class, and was "discovered" at the college HP tryout, after she'd been playing D1 a couple of years. It's not the same as a very good, but unknown, young player showing up at a jam-packed Qualifier HP tryout.
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