rook
Sophomore
Posts: 180
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Post by rook on Mar 11, 2015 22:39:39 GMT -5
Has anyone here ever had to take a family to small claims court for not paying club fees? What's the process? Every year the club I work with has a player who quits midstream Nd the parents won't pay their dues in full...parents and players sign a contract at the beginning of each season agreeing to pay.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Mar 11, 2015 22:44:40 GMT -5
Has anyone here ever had to take a family to small claims court for not paying club fees? What's the process? Every year the club I work with has a player who quits midstream Nd the parents won't pay their dues in full...parents and players sign a contract at the beginning of each season agreeing to pay. It will cost you more to pursue than what it is worth. It's the cost of doing business sadly. What needs to happen is that anyone who owes club fee's can't play for any club the following year until they do. In most cases, its a well meaning families who are in a tough spot. Try to work out a payment arrangement, have them work it off by taking administrative duties, etc.....
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Post by Garand on Mar 12, 2015 3:35:09 GMT -5
Most club dues would fit under the small claims cap, so the cost of getting a judgment in small claims court shouldn't be much. However, even with a judgment in hand, collecting your money will probably be the harder part.
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Post by JustInCase on Mar 12, 2015 7:33:57 GMT -5
Has anyone here ever had to take a family to small claims court for not paying club fees? What's the process? Every year the club I work with has a player who quits midstream Nd the parents won't pay their dues in full...parents and players sign a contract at the beginning of each season agreeing to pay. What state are you in? I know some clubs who have sent their parents to collections. It won't guarantee payment, but usually they get paid. I know one firm that is part owned by a former club and DI college coach. Handles these situations about as nicely as they can be (as far as collections go). Typically what happens is an "official/legal" letter goes out. Wording is dictated by state regulations so each state is slightly different, but basically says they have been placed in collections and they have 30 days to dispute charges, etc. and how they can take care of the matter. During that time period, they are contacted via phone a handful of times and told they have an account in collections. This is where this particular firm handles it a little different. Not kid gloves, but as respectful and non-threatening as possible in this situation (their theory is they get more flies with honey). No response results in another "Final Notice" letter and they are reported to the credit bureaus. That's what usually gets most families. They go to get a mortgage or a car and they have a major hit on their credit report and in order to qualify....thus they pay in order to clean their report up enough in order to purchase what they want to buy. He said about 40% of people pay upon receiving letter/follow up calls/final notice letter. About 30% pay somewhere down the line when they see the hit on their credit report or they go to purchase something and the report is keeping them from qualifying. The other 30% never pay. Obviously, the company has to be paid. In their case, fees are based on when they collect. Usually 20-25% of the total amount. No charges otherwise. If they owe you $2,000 and they collect, they take $400-$500 of it. Better to get 75%, rather than nothing. Collections is job I wouldn't wish upon too many people. Some are dirty and slimy. Nonetheless, the job is not an easy one I am guessing. They take a bad rap. They are just doing a job and chasing a bunch of people who don't fulfill commitments. I know this company will work with you if you have a tough situation - the key is to be willing to take care of it in some manner. Might be worth checking out. Then again, I also know a big guy with a closet full of baseball bats!
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Post by postitagain2 on Mar 12, 2015 8:24:43 GMT -5
Owning 12 rental properties, I've gone to small claims court several times to collect. There is a cap which I assume is different in each state, but the process is pretty simple. Call or go to your county courthouse. They should be able to give you some paperwork that tells you how to do it. You will fill out a form (claim) and submit it to the court clerk and pay the filing fee. Ours is $35 for a point of reference. Then you have to "serve" the person, but you can do that by US mail - certified letter with signed return receipt. You have to give that post office signed postcard to the court when you get it back in the mail, as proof the party was served. When you file, also include the contract with the "claim" plus anything else you have to support your claim. In our state a party can not be represented by a lawyer in small claims. I would guess that is probably true for all states. So it;s not like they can get a lawyer. It's you and the parent's in court before the judge. It's pretty simple, especially if you have a written contract.
You go first and present your argument. Simply give the history of the circumstance - i.e. player tried out. Player accepted offer to play. Parents signed contract. Parents agreed to play this much over this period of time (payments). Player decides it's not for her. Contract obligates full payment. Club has been hurt because an offer would have been extended to an alternative player, etc. It also would be wise to send them a payment demand letter before filing, giving them 30 days to pay in full. Nicely state in the letter if payment is not received you will proceed with legal action. Then you will have that to attach to your claim. Some states require a demand for payment letter before filing -- so you should do it anyway and have the paper trail. Plus it might keep you out of court if the parent call and work out a payment plan -- which you need to get in writing too - if you need it later.
After you present, they will give their defense. The judges are also pretty active -- asking questions to both parties along the way. But small claims usually is a short session in court -- so you don't have all day. You might only get 15-20 minutes, so be prepared and be concise.
Sometimes it takes 1-2 months to get the ruling in the mail from the court. Depends on how busy the judge is. But you should win, and in our state the court attaches pretty high interest to the amount due -- so make sure you ask for payment plus interest during the hearing. And the interest continues to accrue until paid. The payment will go to the court directly from the parents, so the court will calculate the amount based on the day it's paid.
At this point, you should send the parent another letter stating that they need to pay the court ASAP for the judgement. Call and get the amount from the court the day of your letter so you can put that in the letter and point out it goes up each day it's not paid. And also include that if it's not paid within 30 days you are going to file to have their wages garnished for the judgement. That usually takes care of it, because no one wants their employer to get a garnishment letter from the court.
30-35 days goes by -- call the court to see if they have received payment (because there is always a lag in you getting the check from the court - so it might be coming.) If not, then you'll have to do a little research to file a motion for garnishment. This will need to be filed in the "regular" court. But it's not hard and you can find examples on the internet how to write it up. It's different by state -- at this point. Some courts notify the other party of the garnishment hearing -- others require you to serve the other party. So if it goes this far, you will have to do a little leg work. But again, the court will issue you the garnishment motion. And then the court paperwork can be sent to their employer and in our state, you can garnish up to 25% of their pay -- both mom's and dad's if they both work. However, of note is if others have a garnishment ahead of yours -- you have to "wait in line". Those ahead of you get paid first. And this includes child support payments. So when you file for garnishment, you want to include BOTH parents if they work. That way if the dad is paying child support -- you will probably wait a long time for his wage garnishment, but you could get it quickly from the mom's paycheck. Always file both -- because you don't know what will happen -- and then you are in the que ahead of potential others coming behind you, etc.
Good Luck.
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Post by volleytology on Mar 12, 2015 9:05:26 GMT -5
Owning 12 rental properties, I've gone to small claims court several times to collect. There is a cap which I assume is different in each state, but the process is pretty simple. Call or go to your county courthouse. They should be able to give you some paperwork that tells you how to do it. You will fill out a form (claim) and submit it to the court clerk and pay the filing fee. Ours is $35 for a point of reference. Then you have to "serve" the person, but you can do that by US mail - certified letter with signed return receipt. You have to give that post office signed postcard to the court when you get it back in the mail, as proof the party was served. When you file, also include the contract with the "claim" plus anything else you have to support your claim. In our state a party can not be represented by a lawyer in small claims. I would guess that is probably true for all states. So it;s not like they can get a lawyer. It's you and the parent's in court before the judge. It's pretty simple, especially if you have a written contract. You go first and present your argument. Simply give the history of the circumstance - i.e. player tried out. Player accepted offer to play. Parents signed contract. Parents agreed to play this much over this period of time (payments). Player decides it's not for her. Contract obligates full payment. Club has been hurt because an offer would have been extended to an alternative player, etc. It also would be wise to send them a payment demand letter before filing, giving them 30 days to pay in full. Nicely state in the letter if payment is not received you will proceed with legal action. Then you will have that to attach to your claim. Some states require a demand for payment letter before filing -- so you should do it anyway and have the paper trail. Plus it might keep you out of court if the parent call and work out a payment plan -- which you need to get in writing too - if you need it later. After you present, they will give their defense. The judges are also pretty active -- asking questions to both parties along the way. But small claims usually is a short session in court -- so you don't have all day. You might only get 15-20 minutes, so be prepared and be concise. Sometimes it takes 1-2 months to get the ruling in the mail from the court. Depends on how busy the judge is. But you should win, and in our state the court attaches pretty high interest to the amount due -- so make sure you ask for payment plus interest during the hearing. And the interest continues to accrue until paid. The payment will go to the court directly from the parents, so the court will calculate the amount based on the day it's paid. At this point, you should send the parent another letter stating that they need to pay the court ASAP for the judgement. Call and get the amount from the court the day of your letter so you can put that in the letter and point out it goes up each day it's not paid. And also include that if it's not paid within 30 days you are going to file to have their wages garnished for the judgement. That usually takes care of it, because no one wants their employer to get a garnishment letter from the court. 30-35 days goes by -- call the court to see if they have received payment (because there is always a lag in you getting the check from the court - so it might be coming.) If not, then you'll have to do a little research to file a motion for garnishment. This will need to be filed in the "regular" court. But it's not hard and you can find examples on the internet how to write it up. It's different by state -- at this point. Some courts notify the other party of the garnishment hearing -- others require you to serve the other party. So if it goes this far, you will have to do a little leg work. But again, the court will issue you the garnishment motion. And then the court paperwork can be sent to their employer and in our state, you can garnish up to 25% of their pay -- both mom's and dad's if they both work. However, of note is if others have a garnishment ahead of yours -- you have to "wait in line". Those ahead of you get paid first. And this includes child support payments. So when you file for garnishment, you want to include BOTH parents if they work. That way if the dad is paying child support -- you will probably wait a long time for his wage garnishment, but you could get it quickly from the mom's paycheck. Always file both -- because you don't know what will happen -- and then you are in the que ahead of potential others coming behind you, etc. Good Luck. Haha, this post is a complete deterrent to EVER try to do this- I'll gladly take the loss and not let the kid play club next year--wow
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Post by postitagain2 on Mar 12, 2015 9:16:45 GMT -5
[/quote]Haha, this post is a complete deterrent to EVER try to do this- I'll gladly take the loss and not let the kid play club next year--wow [/quote]
Actually, not really. In the 10 years that we've had 12 rentals, we have only ended up in small claims three times and have never had to garnish a wage. That's no guarantee that these parents will pay anywhere along the way if you implement this process -- but there is a good chance. I just think it's important to know the entire process before you go to the effort, so I outlined it all. (Which is what the poster was asking for.) Most people don't want to get into legal proceedings when they know they signed a contract to pay. They certainly don't want a court sending a garnishment letter to their employer. So people step up and met their obligations.
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Post by Semp12 on Mar 12, 2015 10:00:25 GMT -5
Taking a look at the other side. What have people done with athletes who haven't quit the club, but haven't made the latest payment? Realistically, this late in the year there is not a ton of "administration" that would need to be done (or would take just as long to tell them what to do and check that it got done properly than doing it ourselves).
Do you suspend from tournaments? Suspend from everything? Do nothing and keep sending letters threatening like above? These are the parents that probably don't answer there phone and also meet their kids outside of the gym quickly for pick-up.
We've already made flexible payment plans for those who have stated financial issues, but we just seek communication.
Basically, how far do some clubs take it?
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Post by libero3 on Mar 12, 2015 10:14:46 GMT -5
Taking a look at the other side. What have people done with athletes who haven't quit the club, but haven't made the latest payment? Realistically, this late in the year there is not a ton of "administration" that would need to be done (or would take just as long to tell them what to do and check that it got done properly than doing it ourselves). Do you suspend from tournaments? Suspend from everything? Do nothing and keep sending letters threatening like above? These are the parents that probably don't answer there phone and also meet their kids outside of the gym quickly for pick-up. We've already made flexible payment plans for those who have stated financial issues, but we just seek communication. Basically, how far do some clubs take it? I can only speak from experience from when I ran a club. We had multiple payment options. The most common were 3, 4, or 5 payment options. When it came to last payments. We usually gave about 2 weeks with reminders past due before we took action. After those two weeks we started holding the players out of tournaments and practices until it was paid. In the time we did this we never had an athlete miss a tournament and only one missed a practice.
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Post by vbman100 on Mar 12, 2015 10:45:00 GMT -5
On Judge Judy, once there was a case of a family suing a club because they felt that the coaching/experience was not of good quality so they believed they should get their money back. I think they were from Wisconsin somewhere.
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Post by Wolfgang on Mar 12, 2015 12:01:26 GMT -5
I've been to many restaurants where the dining experience was not what I expected -- the portion of the entrees, the taste, the presentation, the service -- but I still paid the entire bill. It's a social contract: you pay in full, not what you think it's worth and certainly not pro rata. If I only eat half, it doesn't mean I should only pay for half the bill.
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Post by bigfan on Mar 12, 2015 12:17:26 GMT -5
How many players out of 100 quit during a season? 2? 3? More?
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Post by gnu2vball on Mar 12, 2015 16:03:28 GMT -5
Are there ever any cases in which players/parents are justified in withdrawing before the end of a season?
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Post by gigibear on Mar 12, 2015 17:03:31 GMT -5
Are there ever any cases in which players/parents are justified in withdrawing before the end of a season? Of course depends if you are the player/parent or the club.... Season ending injury, family relocation, loss or reduction of income, death of person paying..... I've known a few clubs that will let the player leave and move up another player from one of its other teams. Our region allows movement to other clubs even past first tournament play. What I find distasteful is a club having 13, 14 girls on one team, knowing full well girls past #10 won't see the court unless there are muliple injuries to players 1 - 9, tell player and parent that if player works hard in practice they will earn their spot on the court, knowing full well at time of signing of contract, coach has already decided who their starting line up will be. Uneducated parents not knowing the business model for many clubs, that player 10 - 14 are financing the court play of said players 1-9. That is when the s***t hits the fan and parents start wanting their money back or out of the contract. Clubs should take a hit if they cannot truthfully tell the parents/players the player will be at most a practice player. Some families okay with it, some not, just let them have that information before locking everybody in contract.
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Post by Mocha on Mar 12, 2015 19:04:19 GMT -5
Name them here on VT, that'll get them to pay!
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