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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 9:50:11 GMT -5
The issue in our case is pretty simple, actually. We have a contract the parents and players alike sign that lays out everything, including financial obligations, coaches being in charge of playing time, etc. The thing is that the team only had 9 players on it (we budget for 10, so this team was already "losing money"), they were just mad because one of her teammates in her same position was playing 6 rotations and she was only playing 2.5, and she didn't serve much because the girl she went in for has the best serve on the team. They of course blamed the coach and said they didn't like his coaching style, etc, but for the most part the rest of the parents have been happy with the season. They still have 1/3 or their payment left. Have you handed them a polite letter telling them the payment is overdue and the money is already budgeting and committed? If you do not receive payment, the daughter cannot play or practice? I would do that, and talk to them. If they are responsive, problem solved. If they are jerks, I would consider the small claims court thing.
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Post by bigfan on Mar 17, 2015 10:51:58 GMT -5
Simplest solution, pay it all up front. No pay, no play.
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Post by vbprisoner on Mar 17, 2015 10:58:49 GMT -5
Simplest solution, pay it all up front. No pay, no play. Great in theory, but then you will eliminate a lot of great players because they do not have the entire amount available to pay up front so they then go to a club where a payment plan is available.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 12:07:19 GMT -5
Simplest solution, pay it all up front. No pay, no play. Great in theory, but then you will eliminate a lot of great players because they do not have the entire amount available to pay up front so they then go to a club where a payment plan is available.
How much money is typical? I know our cost but we run more like a co-op with the facility and equipment paid for by one family and the fees are just to cover coaches, coaches' travel, uniforms and fees (tournaments, SCVA, USAV etc). Our travel team with all of that is still $2200 for the season and that does not include hotels for all the players at the tournaments. The fees and tournament entries plus coach travel makes a large difference when you only have 9 players.
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Post by vbprisoner on Mar 17, 2015 12:34:13 GMT -5
Great in theory, but then you will eliminate a lot of great players because they do not have the entire amount available to pay up front so they then go to a club where a payment plan is available.
How much money is typical? I know our cost but we run more like a co-op with the facility and equipment paid for by one family and the fees are just to cover coaches, coaches' travel, uniforms and fees (tournaments, SCVA, USAV etc). Our travel team with all of that is still $2200 for the season and that does not include hotels for all the players at the tournaments. The fees and tournament entries plus coach travel makes a large difference when you only have 9 players. In North Texas top club's first two teams (ex. 17-1 and 17-2) this year were between 4-5k and that does not include travel for players. Big / Top clubs can have upwards of 35 teams, and each team will have a different fee based on 1st team, second team, third team, etc. and the amount of training and travel that team will do during season.
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Post by volleyguy on Mar 17, 2015 12:54:14 GMT -5
The issue in our case is pretty simple, actually. We have a contract the parents and players alike sign that lays out everything, including financial obligations, coaches being in charge of playing time, etc. The thing is that the team only had 9 players on it (we budget for 10, so this team was already "losing money"), they were just mad because one of her teammates in her same position was playing 6 rotations and she was only playing 2.5, and she didn't serve much because the girl she went in for has the best serve on the team. They of course blamed the coach and said they didn't like his coaching style, etc, but for the most part the rest of the parents have been happy with the season. They still have 1/3 or their payment left. Small claims court is an inexpensive and efficient option if you want to purse a legal remedy, but you should be prepared to provide evidence beyond a signed contract to counter whatever explanation or defense they may provide. Even with a valid contract and an established breach, it's not always the case that you would win damages for services that presumably have not been provided yet. The fact that the team had one less player isn't directly relevant to the determination of whether they are obligated to pay, although it may be a tangential consideration in the amount of harm you've suffered. It's not always possible, of course, but it's always worthwhile to explore other ways to amicably resolve the situation.
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Post by vbct3 on Mar 17, 2015 13:27:30 GMT -5
Does your region have rules for this? Some regions have rules in their bylaws allowing for clubs to file "grievances" against players/families that do not pay their dues.
These players then will be unable to play for another club until they settle their debt (whether the full amount or not) with the prior club with whom they have an outstanding balance.
Usually persistence with "polite" (read passive-aggressive) e-mails and snail-mails gets the job done. Escalate as the months go on to hinting about legal action, if you want. But I've never had to go that route.
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Post by bigfan on Mar 17, 2015 16:29:51 GMT -5
Simplest solution, pay it all up front. No pay, no play. Great in theory, but then you will eliminate a lot of great players because they do not have the entire amount available to pay up front so they then go to a club where a payment plan is available.
If you do not want head aches and problems have the money in hand. If they cant play let them be somebody else's problem.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 19:46:46 GMT -5
I've been reading the caption to this thread since the first day, and about half the time I read it as "Filing suit against players who quit and won't play." It peaks my interest each time. And I am relieved, each time, when I realize I misread it.
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Post by iht200 on Mar 18, 2015 10:25:59 GMT -5
Best solution? Let it go. You may win a judgment in small claims but it will be left to you to collect if you do, and if the parents are of a mind, they can mount a defense vis-a-vis unkept promises regarding their daughters playing time, skills improvement, whatever. Very possible the Judge would do something along the lines of: they paid half the fee and they played half the season, so call it even.
Would you like parents to start suing you if you don't live up to their interpretation of your promises to them regarding playing time, skills improvements, etc?
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Post by cvbc14 on Mar 18, 2015 11:31:03 GMT -5
Best solution? Let it go. You may win a judgment in small claims but it will be left to you to collect if you do, and if the parents are of a mind, they can mount a defense vis-a-vis unkept promises regarding their daughters playing time, skills improvement, whatever. Very possible the Judge would do something along the lines of: they paid half the fee and they played half the season, so call it even. Would you like parents to start suing you if you don't live up to their interpretation of your promises to them regarding playing time, skills improvements, etc? You don't pay for playing time. You pay for training time. Just because half of the kids showed up in the gym doesn't mean that the rate is 1/2 price. If you only went to half of your college courses, would your school let you off with half tuition, or if you only sat in the drivers seat of your 4 seat car, would you get a reduction in the purchase price?
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Post by iht200 on Mar 18, 2015 12:20:28 GMT -5
Best solution? Let it go. You may win a judgment in small claims but it will be left to you to collect if you do, and if the parents are of a mind, they can mount a defense vis-a-vis unkept promises regarding their daughters playing time, skills improvement, whatever. Very possible the Judge would do something along the lines of: they paid half the fee and they played half the season, so call it even. Would you like parents to start suing you if you don't live up to their interpretation of your promises to them regarding playing time, skills improvements, etc? You don't pay for playing time. You pay for training time. Just because half of the kids showed up in the gym doesn't mean that the rate is 1/2 price. If you only went to half of your college courses, would your school let you off with half tuition, or if you only sat in the drivers seat of your 4 seat car, would you get a reduction in the purchase price? Sure, if you're certain the parents fully understand and fully agree that their kid may not play, despite the $3K-$5K they're paying. Are you sure the parents are crystal clear on that (and fully agree), and you haven't said or done anything that may lead them to believe anything else? You haven't hinted that if little Sally keeps improving (and takes some privates) she'll see more court time? If you've ever been involved in litigation or arbitration you would understand Judges/Mediators typically try to give something to both sides, and a 50/50 split for half the season vs half the fee would be an appealing solution.
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Post by bigfan on Mar 18, 2015 12:34:22 GMT -5
If you've ever been involved in litigation or arbitration you would understand......................... Please tell me you are joking................you go to court over this? Let it go. Have them pay up front. This is a broken record.................NO PAY UPFRONT = NO PLAY AT ALL!
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Post by vbprisoner on Mar 18, 2015 12:44:59 GMT -5
If you've ever been involved in litigation or arbitration you would understand......................... Please tell me you are joking................you go to court over this? Let it go. Have them pay up front. This is a broken record.................NO PAY UPFRONT = NO PLAY AT ALL! It is not that simple.......I just considered it a cost of doing business and it was not a big problem....like 1 or 2 per year.
You have to have flexibility in payment because many families may not have the ability to pay one large lump sum. As I stated earlier you then risk some top players or top athletes going to other clubs that provide payment plans, and your top teams then become average or don't qualify for Nationals because some key players could not pay all up front. Then the club is not a hot club and attract new talent because they want to play for clubs that have good competitive teams, so you have to view it as a cost of doing business.
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Post by iht200 on Mar 18, 2015 15:39:56 GMT -5
If you've ever been involved in litigation or arbitration you would understand......................... Please tell me you are joking................you go to court over this? Let it go. Have them pay up front. This is a broken record.................NO PAY UPFRONT = NO PLAY AT ALL! Small claims is a court with a judge.
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