Non-Traditional Defense

[Deleted]

I believe I recall seeing Wong-Orantes at Nebraska playing in right back.

[chatchu-off moksri]

LMU had their libero in middle back. They didn't really have a back row attack so I guess it didn't really matter.

Minnesota also had their libero play middle back, right? I remember Daly hitting a lot of A balls in the beginning of the season.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2015 13:10:24 GMT -5 Coast said:

Jul 6, 2015 13:09:24 GMT -5 @wingoz34 said:

I believe I recall seeing Wong-Orantes at Nebraska playing in right back.

Situational against a strong opposite I would assume? Purdue?

Actually I think it was the Purdue game in 2013 that I noticed. Drews had a good game. Purdue won in Devaney. 

[c4ndlelight]

I don't think libero playing on the right counts as non-traditional if you have a DS playing left back. You're not really changing the formation.

I think maybe Arizona did some interesting things defensively last year? I'd have to re-watch to confirm.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2015 13:27:45 GMT -5 chatchu-off moksri said:

LMU had their libero in middle back. They didn't really have a back row attack so I guess it didn't really matter.

Minnesota also had their libero play middle back, right? I remember Daly hitting a lot of A balls in the beginning of the season.

It would make sense for LMU since their coach is currently on staff with USA. And their former assistant is the current technical coordinator for USA, who published heat maps regarding attack placement, leading to the conclusion that most attacks from the outside land in/near the middle of the court.  

[s0uthie]

I know of several teams who play their libero in middle-back about halfway between the endline/ten-foot line. It can be pretty effective.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2015 13:31:39 GMT -5 c4ndlelight said:

I don't think libero playing on the right counts as non-traditional if you have a DS playing left back. You're not really changing the formation.

I think maybe Arizona did some interesting things defensively last year? I'd have to re-watch to confirm.

Adj. 1. nontraditional - not conforming to or in accord with tradition 
www.thefreedictionary.com/nontraditional

If tradition is to play the libero in left back, then playing her anywhere else is non-traditional. 

[s0uthie]

Jul 6, 2015 13:36:40 GMT -5 @wingoz34 said:

Jul 6, 2015 13:31:39 GMT -5 c4ndlelight said:

I don't think libero playing on the right counts as non-traditional if you have a DS playing left back. You're not really changing the formation.

I think maybe Arizona did some interesting things defensively last year? I'd have to re-watch to confirm.

Adj. 1. nontraditional - not conforming to or in accord with tradition 
www.thefreedictionary.com/nontraditional

If tradition is to play the libero in left back, then playing her anywhere else is non-traditional. 

Otherwise you're only asking about people who play setter-up defense.

[dexter]

Jul 6, 2015 13:27:45 GMT -5 chatchu-off moksri said:

LMU had their libero in middle back. They didn't really have a back row attack so I guess it didn't really matter.

Minnesota also had their libero play middle back, right? I remember Daly hitting a lot of A balls in the beginning of the season.

Is libero in middle back considered non-traditional?

Also, I have always been curious on people's perception about the back row attack requiring the hitter to play middle-back. I have heard people say this a lot - you can't attack in the back row unless they play middle back. Left back creates some level of transition, but they are approaching the ball at an angle similar to an OH. Plus the ball is on the hitting side of their shoulder (assuming they are a RH OH). Just curious because I cannot get myself to see the necessity. Any perspectives out there?

[s0uthie]

The men's game makes heavy use of backrow attacking from the right side of the court. It is especially helpful with the setter in the front row. This hasn't quite pushed its way to the women's game yet, but the bic (quick backrow attack from the middle) is getting bigger every year.

[redbeard2008]

Washington has traditionally played libero in middle-back, but switched to left-back the last two years, due to having OHs capable of playing middle-back.

[Phaedrus]

I don't see the kind of effectiveness of the pipe attack at the level I coach, club, that warrants making decisions on where the Libero plays based on the back row attack.

1) most pipe attacks are afterthoughts or as outlets because we don't see the kind of athleticism need to consistently score from the pipe.

2) I also think that the predictability of the set has made it less effective. When I have seen the pipe set some coaches have triple blocked. Either the block works because it takes away the angles or it intimidates the hitter to change their shot.

3) Outside of some outliers, most girls, even top level 18's, have a hard time terminating on the pipe.

I have played around with the Bik and some back row sets from the Red zone, I had some mixed successes with that, depending on the personnel of course.

I decide on where the Libero plays depending on their court coverage and how to leverage their defense.

[FUBAR]

Jul 6, 2015 13:44:31 GMT -5 dexter said:

Also, I have always been curious on people's perception about the back row attack requiring the hitter to play middle-back. I have heard people say this a lot - you can't attack in the back row unless they play middle back. Left back creates some level of transition, but they are approaching the ball at an angle similar to an OH. Plus the ball is on the hitting side of their shoulder (assuming they are a RH OH). Just curious because I cannot get myself to see the necessity. Any perspectives out there?

Back when we started using the libero (yes, I'm old) I initially put mine at middle back, with pipe hitters transitioning from left back. I switched them for defensive reasons halfway through the season and both the defense & the pipe improved. I've revisited this several times along the way, but I always seem to go back to OH in 6, libero in 5.

Most of the time my OHs are taller than my Ls and having the longer player in 6 seems to help a lot.

In my games left back tends to play about halfway down the sideline against a lot of attacks, so if she is a hitter, she has to retreat and move to the middle of the court. If my back row hitter is in z6, she is already deep enough to approach and she just has to go to the middle of the court to begin her approach. This is even more important now that we are hitting biks more and more. A MB can transition off the net, take a shortened approach and slap a 1 fairly effectively. Most of the time you have to take a pretty solid swing at a back row ball to get a kill (or at least threaten to) so I don't want a pipe hitter to have a shortened approach because of transition.

I want my pipe hitter to approach straight up the centerline of the court - not at much of an angle. An OH has a little less than 90° of range and an angled approach keeps it all more or less in front of her. An athletic pipe hitter may have 120° of range and if you approach at much of an angle z1 is going to be behind the hitter to some degree which may make it harder to attack. I like attacking z1. Setters are there, and if they dig they can't set the counter attack. Even if a non-setter digs in z1, counterattack is much harder to mount from a z1 dig than from a z5 dig. So my pipe hitter approaching more or less straight down the middle of the court keeps their entire range in front of them and allows them to hammer to either z1 or z5.

[sevb]

Jul 6, 2015 13:34:11 GMT -5 s0uthie said:

I know of several teams who play their libero in middle-back about halfway between the endline/ten-foot line. It can be pretty effective.

I see what you did there...

[karpol]

Russia under Karpol ..reversed V shape defense pattern