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Post by gobruins on Jul 25, 2015 9:14:59 GMT -5
Got to hand it to ESPN. It only took them 20 years to find this story.
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Post by ciscokeed on Jul 25, 2015 9:21:44 GMT -5
So true GoBeuins- but a part of me also feels it's sti newsworthy-or a serious inditement of USAV and AAU policies
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Post by onfiya on Jul 25, 2015 9:55:29 GMT -5
Outside the Lines/ESPN is the news group that originally reported the story in 2001.
Butler is a predator, and should have spent the last 30 years in prison. He is most fortunate that wasn't the case. And the idea that he has been able to build perhaps the most successfull club in the nation, earning a living and acclaim in youth sports in abhorrent!
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Post by gobruins on Jul 25, 2015 9:55:35 GMT -5
So true GoBeuins- but a part of me also feels it's sti newsworthy-or a serious inditement of USAV and AAU policies It absolutely is still relevant. I really wonder how many parents have sent their kids to play for SPVB in the past 15-20 years, who had no idea about what a scumbag Butler is.
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Post by sonofdogman on Jul 25, 2015 10:18:47 GMT -5
I completely understand the position taken by many - that Butler's actions over 20 years ago are sufficient to render a permanent judgment of him, and to result in an irrevocable lifetime ban from youth sports activities. Many, many people feel this way and the quantity of those who hold this opinion make it clear to me that it is a valid viewpoint.
I am of a different opinion. While I concur that his actions were reprehensible and that it is right that he should suffer consequences for them, I do not believe that his character today can be judged solely on the basis of the actions from the past. People can change. People can be given second chances. Butler has created countless opportunities for young women since his mistakes. As far as I know, he has not been accused of further wrong-doing of this nature. He and his colleagues at Sports Performance have certainly helped many, many young athletes learn to succeed, to enjoy both volleyball and life, and they have given so many of them opportunities at the next level.
How could Butler have better atoned for his sins? Should his lifetime ban and complete removal from the sport been the right solution? Or has his real life since then, a life free of further accusation or mistake of this kind, which has helped so many more young women been better?
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Post by volleyguy on Jul 25, 2015 10:29:00 GMT -5
I completely understand the position taken by many - that Butler's actions over 20 years ago are sufficient to render a permanent judgment of him, and to result in an irrevocable lifetime ban from youth sports activities. Many, many people feel this way and the quantity of those who hold this opinion make it clear to me that it is a valid viewpoint. I am of a different opinion. While I concur that his actions were reprehensible and that it is right that he should suffer consequences for them, I do not believe that his character today can be judged solely on the basis of the actions from the past. People can change. People can be given second chances. Butler has created countless opportunities for young women since his mistakes. As far as I know, he has not been accused of further wrong-doing of this nature. He and his colleagues at Sports Performance have certainly helped many, many young athletes learn to succeed, to enjoy both volleyball and life, and they have given so many of them opportunities at the next level. How could Butler have better atoned for his sins? Should his lifetime ban and complete removal from the sport been the right solution? Or has his real life since then, a life free of further accusation or mistake of this kind, which has helped so many more young women been better? I agree with the idea that most people are deserving of a second chance, but generally, acknowledging and accepting responsibility for one's past actions and mistakes is an important part of that. Butler's position has always been, as I understand it, that he did nothing wrong.
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Post by gobruins on Jul 25, 2015 10:29:59 GMT -5
Outside the Lines/ESPN is the news group that originally reported the story in 2001. Butler is a predator, and should have spent the last 30 years in prison. He is most fortunate that wasn't the case. And the idea that he has been able to build perhaps the most successfull club in the nation, earning a living and acclaim in youth sports in abhorrent! This story was reported well before 2001. Here is a story from 1996, and that wasn't the first report (but at the time, the most in-depth). www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/8476527/sex-lies-and-volleyball-chicago-magazine-cynthia-hanson
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Post by sonofdogman on Jul 25, 2015 10:41:59 GMT -5
temptations don't change
we can, and so can our character, but our temptations do not.
forgiveness, yes. but clemency? hmmm...
cannot exchange all the good for the little bad.
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Post by sonofdogman on Jul 25, 2015 10:43:57 GMT -5
I agree with the idea of most people are deserving of a second chance, but generally, acknowledging and accepting responsibility for one's past actions and mistakes is an important part of that. Butler's position has always been, as I understand it, that he did nothing wrong. this is very crucial. thank you volleyguy, it is a point I missed addressing and do not know Butler takes this view.
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Post by alarmclock on Jul 25, 2015 11:05:35 GMT -5
Outside the Lines/ESPN is the news group that originally reported the story in 2001. Butler is a predator, and should have spent the last 30 years in prison. He is most fortunate that wasn't the case. And the idea that he has been able to build perhaps the most successfull club in the nation, earning a living and acclaim in youth sports in abhorrent! This story was reported well before 2001. Here is a story from 1996, and that wasn't the first report (but at the time, the most in-depth). www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/8476527/sex-lies-and-volleyball-chicago-magazine-cynthia-hansonThat was the first time the story broke. That article is from the inaugural issue of Sports Illustrated (SI) For Women. I don't know if that magazine is even around anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 11:13:11 GMT -5
People keep saying 20 years ago. The article says Butler was in his 20s.
I'm a little confused about when all this happened. I know when he was banned, etc.
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Post by alarmclock on Jul 25, 2015 11:16:02 GMT -5
The problem with Butler is that here we are 20-plus years since the story first broke, and 25-plus years since he allegedy did what he did, and he still hasn't changed his tune, as far as his reaction to the accusations.
Did he have a sexual relationship with multiple young women who were players on his team back in the 80's? Yes.
Were they underage when this happened? Yes.
In the initial Illinois court case, his defense was that the relationships were consensual and that all the women were of legal age when sexual relations occurred. He has never admitted to anything other than that. And all of his actions in the years since have been to preserve his status as the owner/director of SPRI, including attempting to have a USAV reinstate him as a coach from his lifetime ban via court order (failed), starting up his own JO organization directly competing against USAV so that he can coach in tournaments again, and then partnering his organization with the AAU to host a national championship. All that effort in all those years to keep his club going and for him personally to maintain his status in the JO community, specifically in the Great Lakes region. A lot of strong-arming and a lot of bullying in the club world to maintain SPRI's elite position. I wonder how many of the present athletes in SPRI, their parents, and all the other clubs/athletes/parents participating in the JVA/AAU events know all of this information.
Do I think Butler has repeated these types of unethical (actually, illegal) relationships with his players since then? Probably not. He's married to the same woman for 20-plus years, they probably have kids I dunno, and she has always supported him every time this issue comes up. In hindsight, Butler probably should have just done a mea culpa back in 1996, thrown himself at the mercy of the JO community back then and asked for forgiveness, and moved on. This whole issue would have been done by now and he coulda gotten on with his life and his club would have suffered no lasting long-term effect.
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Post by alarmclock on Jul 25, 2015 11:21:37 GMT -5
People keep saying 20 years ago. The article says Butler was in his 20s. I'm a little confused about when all this happened. I know when he was banned, etc. The article's probably wrong, timeline wise. When the 1995 story was written and the women first came forward, the criminal statute of limitations had already run out as far as prosecuting Butler, which is why he was never brought up on criminal charges and never ended up in prison. That means the actual relationships were probably mid-to-late 80's. If you calculate that, Butler was probably late 20's or early 30's at the time of the incidents.
I dunno, though. Only 3 accusers actually came forward to testify against Butler in the Illinois supreme court case. One was Julie Bremner, the second one is identified in this new article, and the third one I think may have been on one of Butler's first JO teams. Anyway, seeing as how Butler is 60 now and SPRI is over 30 years old, it makes sense that he was pretty young when all this stuff happened.
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Post by alarmclock on Jul 25, 2015 11:45:59 GMT -5
temptations don't change we can, and so can our character, but our temptations do not. forgiveness, yes. but clemency? hmmm... cannot exchange all the good for the little bad. You think the 3 women who came forward to report what Butler did, and the many others who had stuff happen to them but could not bring themselves to come forward, consider this "the little bad"?
It only affected the rest of their lives, and their families lives. That's all.
"Little bad" - not a good choice of words and not ever a good way to frame this issue at all.
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Post by sonofdogman on Jul 25, 2015 12:05:53 GMT -5
temptations don't change we can, and so can our character, but our temptations do not. forgiveness, yes. but clemency? hmmm... cannot exchange all the good for the little bad. You think the 3 women who came forward to report what Butler did, and the many others who had stuff happen to them but could not bring themselves to come forward, consider this "the little bad"?
It only affected the rest of their lives, and their families lives. That's all.
"Little bad" - not a good choice of words and not ever a good way to frame this issue at all.
Yes, a horrible choice of words by me. In fact, I mean to say that they CANNOT equate at all, and that is because those things I boneheadedly described as "little" are too big for it. My apologies.
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