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Post by vbnerd on Aug 1, 2015 6:22:41 GMT -5
In response to your question "why now"... One would wonder more if it doesn't have everything to do with the election of a new AAU president... and one of the losers slinging all the dirt that they can... this dirt just happened to stick! 1. Expulsion of perpetrator by USAV 2. Perpetrator starts his own organization JVA, suprisingly it grows 3. AAU old-president seeks to grow AAU in fast growing sport by aligning with JVA, both have anti USAV marketing pitch 4. Greed or empathy causes AAU old-president to rationalize partnership, observing so many parents willing to look the other way 5. For years, co-perpetrators flourish and protect each other 6. Old president is found to be sodomizing young boys--AAU is forced to enter into emergency consulting agmt for PR sake 7. Old president is replaced, but continued weak leadership and Butler threat creates fear of JVA defection and vb revenue loss, so no implementation of consultant recommendations. 8. Fearing growth of AAU, USAV responds to concerns about length of season at 18's level 9. USAV, AAU and new-President of AAU all benefit by sanitizing the past through disgracing Butler again, breaking all ties I tend to think it wasn't one of the election losers, but one of the gainers that tweaked ESPN. And the answer to "why now?" You make it sound like the USAV punishment led directly to the creation of the JVA. Those two steps are about a decade apart so it isn't exactly A to B.
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Post by onfiya on Aug 1, 2015 8:34:36 GMT -5
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Post by zenyada on Aug 1, 2015 12:02:51 GMT -5
1. Expulsion of perpetrator by USAV 2. Perpetrator starts his own organization JVA, suprisingly it grows 3. AAU old-president seeks to grow AAU in fast growing sport by aligning with JVA, both have anti USAV marketing pitch 4. Greed or empathy causes AAU old-president to rationalize partnership, observing so many parents willing to look the other way 5. For years, co-perpetrators flourish and protect each other 6. Old president is found to be sodomizing young boys--AAU is forced to enter into emergency consulting agmt for PR sake 7. Old president is replaced, but continued weak leadership and Butler threat creates fear of JVA defection and vb revenue loss, so no implementation of consultant recommendations. 8. Fearing growth of AAU, USAV responds to concerns about length of season at 18's level 9. USAV, AAU and new-President of AAU all benefit by sanitizing the past through disgracing Butler again, breaking all ties I tend to think it wasn't one of the election losers, but one of the gainers that tweaked ESPN. And the answer to "why now?" You make it sound like the USAV punishment led directly to the creation of the JVA. Those two steps are about a decade apart so it isn't exactly A to B. No point on my part, it simply didn't occur to me that the time passed prior to the formation of JVA was relevant in pursuit of the answer to the question "why now". The sequential summary was an attempt to provide a more easily digestible description of the dynamics at play over a long period rather than a chronological detailing. But thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 12:23:19 GMT -5
In response to your question "why now"... One would wonder more if it doesn't have everything to do with the election of a new AAU president... and one of the losers slinging all the dirt that they can... this dirt just happened to stick! 1. Expulsion of perpetrator by USAV 2. Perpetrator starts his own organization JVA, suprisingly it grows 3. AAU old-president seeks to grow AAU in fast growing sport by aligning with JVA, both have anti USAV marketing pitch 4. Greed or empathy causes AAU old-president to rationalize partnership, observing so many parents willing to look the other way 5. For years, co-perpetrators flourish and protect each other 6. Old president is found to be sodomizing young boys--AAU is forced to enter into emergency consulting agmt for PR sake 7. Old president is replaced, but continued weak leadership and Butler threat creates fear of JVA defection and vb revenue loss, so no implementation of consultant recommendations. 8. Fearing growth of AAU, USAV responds to concerns about length of season at 18's level 9. USAV, AAU and new-President of AAU all benefit by sanitizing the past through disgracing Butler again, breaking all ties I tend to think it wasn't one of the election losers, but one of the gainers that tweaked ESPN. And the answer to "why now?" Your information is incorrect. 1. He was barred from coaching by USAV but continued to be a club director in their system and was allowed back at USAV tournaments on the bench to coach as a chaperone. This continued until he left for JVA almost 10 years later. 2. Rick Butler was one of 20 (?) club directors that formed JVA. 3. Seems correct, AAU holds tourneys and tourneys die unless they have lots of good teams attending. 4. AAU had already been caught with a child molester that they seemed to ignore. Perhaps there is sympathy or denial in the organization. On that note, I wonder what happens at SPRI when a 28 year old coach comes to the owner/director Butler and tells him that he is sleeping with one of his players? Wonder if they have a club policy that would forbid that? 9. agree
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Post by zenyada on Aug 1, 2015 14:13:44 GMT -5
1. Expulsion of perpetrator by USAV 2. Perpetrator starts his own organization JVA, suprisingly it grows 3. AAU old-president seeks to grow AAU in fast growing sport by aligning with JVA, both have anti USAV marketing pitch 4. Greed or empathy causes AAU old-president to rationalize partnership, observing so many parents willing to look the other way 5. For years, co-perpetrators flourish and protect each other 6. Old president is found to be sodomizing young boys--AAU is forced to enter into emergency consulting agmt for PR sake 7. Old president is replaced, but continued weak leadership and Butler threat creates fear of JVA defection and vb revenue loss, so no implementation of consultant recommendations. 8. Fearing growth of AAU, USAV responds to concerns about length of season at 18's level 9. USAV, AAU and new-President of AAU all benefit by sanitizing the past through disgracing Butler again, breaking all ties I tend to think it wasn't one of the election losers, but one of the gainers that tweaked ESPN. And the answer to "why now?" Your information is incorrect. 1. He was barred from coaching by USAV but continued to be a club director in their system and was allowed back at USAV tournaments on the bench to coach as a chaperone. This continued until he left for JVA almost 10 years later. 2. Rick Butler was one of 20 (?) club directors that formed JVA. 3. Seems correct, AAU holds tourneys and tourneys die unless they have lots of good teams attending. 4. AAU had already been caught with a child molester that they seemed to ignore. Perhaps there is sympathy or denial in the organization. On that note, I wonder what happens at SPRI when a 28 year old coach comes to the owner/director Butler and tells him that he is sleeping with one of his players? Wonder if they have a club policy that would forbid that? 9. agree 1. Objection irrelevant. See my most recent post. USAV gaffed their response, however effectively it was the identifying of a perpetrator, and ultimately reset the course of SPRI. 2. Was he not the organizer and in a leadership position when the AAU partnering took place? 9. Glad we came to the same conclusion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 15:48:48 GMT -5
How rare that you were present at the exact time and place of all alleged incidents... Were you there? No, which is why I'm not saying that this happened or that this didn't happen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 15:51:42 GMT -5
Your information is incorrect. 1. He was barred from coaching by USAV but continued to be a club director in their system and was allowed back at USAV tournaments on the bench to coach as a chaperone. This continued until he left for JVA almost 10 years later. 2. Rick Butler was one of 20 (?) club directors that formed JVA. 3. Seems correct, AAU holds tourneys and tourneys die unless they have lots of good teams attending. 4. AAU had already been caught with a child molester that they seemed to ignore. Perhaps there is sympathy or denial in the organization. On that note, I wonder what happens at SPRI when a 28 year old coach comes to the owner/director Butler and tells him that he is sleeping with one of his players? Wonder if they have a club policy that would forbid that? 9. agree 1. Objection irrelevant. See my most recent post. USAV gaffed their response, however effectively it was the identifying of a perpetrator, and ultimately reset the course of SPRI. 2. Was he not the organizer and in a leadership position when the AAU partnering took place? 9. Glad we came to the same conclusion. 1. Not irrelevant, as it shows how much an organization actually cares for the kids vs. the revenue dollars. USAV identified and beyond their doubts knew he was a sexual predator or child molester since they found he had sex with more than one 16 year old. HOWEVER, they chose to allow him to continue to coach because he had a large club and produced results. 2. He was not the leader, there were a lot of clubs pissed off at how USAV dismissed them. But, obviously (given the list of clubs) he was one of the most prominent clubs and would have more power in the meetings.
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Post by n00b on Aug 1, 2015 15:53:31 GMT -5
2. Was he not the organizer and in a leadership position when the AAU partnering took place? He was not in the leadership when JVA first formed (at least in title), but he was the one who took the lead a few years later in aligning their championship with AAU.
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Post by zenyada on Aug 1, 2015 16:20:46 GMT -5
1. Objection irrelevant. See my most recent post. USAV gaffed their response, however effectively it was the identifying of a perpetrator, and ultimately reset the course of SPRI. 2. Was he not the organizer and in a leadership position when the AAU partnering took place? 9. Glad we came to the same conclusion. 1. Not irrelevant, as it shows how much an organization actually cares for the kids vs. the revenue dollars. USAV identified and beyond their doubts knew he was a sexual predator or child molester since they found he had sex with more than one 16 year old. HOWEVER, they chose to allow him to continue to coach because he had a large club and produced results. 2. He was not the leader, there were a lot of clubs pissed off at how USAV dismissed them. But, obviously (given the list of clubs) he was one of the most prominent clubs and would have more power in the meetings. Desparate Hail Mary. Obfuscation of salient facts. Shoulda seen it coming.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Aug 1, 2015 16:27:58 GMT -5
No, which is why I'm not saying that this happened or that this didn't happen. You seem pretty sure on what didn't happen.
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Post by Phaedrus on Aug 1, 2015 17:15:34 GMT -5
JVA was a breath of fresh air when they started, they had some great ideas.
1) Power leagues lasting two days rather than the multi day qualifiers. 2) regional pods of travel for the power league. 3) Year end tournament that happened a month before the AAU or the JOs. 4) the desire was to focus on training and teaching rather than jetting around the country chasing that elusive qualifier bid. Believe it or not, not chasing that bid gave the coaches and players a serious load off of our minds for the season. Instead of trying to patch the holes in our game before the next qualifier, the practices were spent on anything else we wanted. Of course the thing we gave up was the crucible of competition in the qualifiers. The power leagues were actually quite good in that respect, we saw lots of different teams in the Midwest. Those clubs who were USAV clubs took part in the power leagues because of the competition.
But, JVA hooked up with the AAU and gave up their season ending tournament. Believe me, that was a huge concession as the season ending tournament funded the organization. Instead they hosted the mid-season World Challenge to replace the revenue. That move was an RB brainchild. It was actually a no-brainier as the collaboration between AAU and JVA was pretty natural, and RB was an AAU guy going way back.
The move so that the AÀU and JOs were nearly on top of each other on the calendar, I think they overlapped for a couple of years in there, that was AAU and Disney's doing.
JVA, knowing the history of Stay and Play, deliberately avoided doing that, but Disney and the AAU put pressure on to get some form of central hotel requirement, not as strict but still along the same line.
So today, in 2015, most of the defining differences of the initial incarnation JVA has gone away. Many JVA stalwart clubs are playing both tournaments. The big founding clubs are still avoiding the JOs. I doubt we will see that change, unless their business model is affected. They have shown that they can thrive outside of of the USAV, the smaller clubs are living in the cracks between the two organizations and doing OK.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Aug 1, 2015 17:34:58 GMT -5
2. Was he not the organizer and in a leadership position when the AAU partnering took place? He was not in the leadership when JVA first formed (at least in title), but he was the one who took the lead a few years later in aligning their championship with AAU. Rick was the original driving force behind the JVA. He contacted about 12 club directors and held a two day meeting to pitch the idea of challenging the USAV on some of the things they were doing that werent in the best interest of club volleyball even though club volleyball was all but totally funding USAV. I was one of those directors. The goal was NOT to break off from them, but their dismissal of those ideas led to a break off. Actually the biggest issue was although girls club volleyball made up most of the members of the USAV, they had no representation. Had the USAV been interested in addressing the concerns, the JVA wouldnt exist. When faced with losing many of top clubs in the country they said "we don't care" Butler is a brilliant business person and is most responsible for what AAU volleyball is today. I have nothing to add to the other stuff being discussed, but these are the facts as they relate to the JVA, it's creation and his role in it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 17:39:00 GMT -5
No, which is why I'm not saying that this happened or that this didn't happen. You seem pretty sure on what didn't happen. No, I'm just unwilling to participate in the destruction of a man's life when there is no proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty of the acts he was accused of. I wasn't there, you weren't there, no one in this thread was there. None of us definitively know what happened, and unfortunately, because of legalities and technicalities, we likely won't ever know. Could it have happened? Sure. Could it all be a lie? Sure, but no one posting in this thread actually knows because none of us have enough information to know. So, I will support Rick Butler and Sports Performance until new information comes to light. You're free to choose to do otherwise.
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Post by truthandjustice on Aug 1, 2015 17:42:17 GMT -5
You seem pretty sure on what didn't happen. No, I'm just unwilling to participate in the destruction of a man's life when there is no proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty of the acts he was accused of. I wasn't there, you weren't there, no one in this thread was there. None of us definitively know what happened, and unfortunately, because of legalities and technicalities, we likely won't ever know. Could it have happened? Sure. Could it all be a lie? Sure, but no one posting in this thread actually knows because none of us have enough information to know. So, I will support Rick Butler and Sports Performance until new information comes to light. You're free to choose to do otherwise. So I will just ask you this: Are the three women (now) lying when two of them said they had sex with Butler when they were 16 and one when she was 17? Answer that question for me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 17:44:09 GMT -5
No, I'm just unwilling to participate in the destruction of a man's life when there is no proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty of the acts he was accused of. I wasn't there, you weren't there, no one in this thread was there. None of us definitively know what happened, and unfortunately, because of legalities and technicalities, we likely won't ever know. Could it have happened? Sure. Could it all be a lie? Sure, but no one posting in this thread actually knows because none of us have enough information to know. So, I will support Rick Butler and Sports Performance until new information comes to light. You're free to choose to do otherwise. So I will just ask you this: Are the three women (now) lying when two of them said they had sex with Butler when they were 16 and one when she was 17? Answer that question for me. How could I possibly know if they're lying?
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