Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 17:12:15 GMT -5
I have a daughter who plays for Spvb . Last year Rick was her coach. There has NEVER been any uncomfortable of awkward moments for her with Rick or any other coach at Spvb. She loves the intensity of the program and has grown as an athlete. She has said many times Rick is her all-time favorite coach. He challenges her to improve and he's a phenomenal teacher that gives her the tools and the coaching to help her improve. She is upset this is all being dug up again and is planning to support him however she can. If at all possible she wants this to turn into something positive for Spvb and Rick and his family. As she said this to me this morning.. "Maybe through this everyone will learn about his phenomenal coaching, the quality of his character that we see everyday, and how he also coaches us to be positive in life and how to be a strong athlete with strong character values. Spvb's training is one of the best in the country. But it doesn't stop there. Rick and the others really care about us. They make sure our school is going well, that we are positive and look forward to our future, and they make sure we stay away from things that could bring us down. They encourage us to make careful & correct decisions when we are outside of the club. They care about us as a total person not just an athlete. Rick and the other coaches help us develop strong character. Being caring to everyone, being honest to team mates and coaches, respecting everyone even those who are challenging us at the moment, and always being responsible. Responsible with our training, our school work and how we act. Along with the great intense training, Rick and the coaches demonstrate and encourage these behaviors and core values to us all the time. I wish ESPN knew how great of a coach Rick really is." Many Spvb girls, my daughter included, will support Rick and the program however they can. I wouldn't want my daughter to have to choose to play anywhere else. How do you feel with the fact that your teenage daughter is being coached by a guy who has mentally abused, physically abused, and emotionally abused girls just like your daughter? Perhaps the physical contact is no longer existent, but it seems the allure of Sports Performance and the quest for a DI scholarship are too great to overcome the fact that the guy leading it all admitted to having sex with at least three teenagers at his club.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 17:19:47 GMT -5
What was the age of consent in that state at that time? This is irrelevant, both legally and ethically/professionally. The fact that anyone would bring this up is atrocious. I'm sure everyone understands the ethical side of it, however the law also disregards age of consent in some scenarios, including for a person in a position of power/trust. www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/consent-sexual-activities-position-authority-and-trust
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jul 25, 2015 17:32:52 GMT -5
What was the age of consent in that state at that time? This is irrelevant, both legally and ethically/professionally. The fact that anyone would bring this up is atrocious. I'm sure everyone understands the ethical side of it, however the law also disregards age of consent in some scenarios, including for a person in a position of power/trust. www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/consent-sexual-activities-position-authority-and-trustFor the record, I agree with you that it's ethically beyond atrocious for a coach to have sex with a minor player. I even find it ethically questinoable when coaches and adult players have relationships, due to the power differential. However, I recall the age of consent being 16 in Illinois at the time, and the link you cited refers to Canadian law, not US law. I don't know of US law expressly making it illegal for teachers/coaches/similar to have sex with players over the age of consent. So that, plus the statute of limitations, would explain why there were never criminal charges filed. I'm frankly really surprised that AAU doesn't have some sort of screening procedure for coaches, if only to cover their own butts. Edited to add: If you read the firsthand accounts from some of the players in question, it sure as heck doesn't sound consensual, even if they were (per Illinois law) old enough to consent. One says that she was saying "no, no, no" over and over again. That's not consensual. That's rape.
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Post by VBCOACH on Jul 25, 2015 17:59:01 GMT -5
I have a daughter who plays for Spvb . Last year Rick was her coach. There has NEVER been any uncomfortable of awkward moments for her with Rick or any other coach at Spvb. She loves the intensity of the program and has grown as an athlete. She has said many times Rick is her all-time favorite coach. He challenges her to improve and he's a phenomenal teacher that gives her the tools and the coaching to help her improve. She is upset this is all being dug up again and is planning to support him however she can. If at all possible she wants this to turn into something positive for Spvb and Rick and his family. As she said this to me this morning.. "Maybe through this everyone will learn about his phenomenal coaching, the quality of his character that we see everyday, and how he also coaches us to be positive in life and how to be a strong athlete with strong character values. Spvb's training is one of the best in the country. But it doesn't stop there. Rick and the others really care about us. They make sure our school is going well, that we are positive and look forward to our future, and they make sure we stay away from things that could bring us down. They encourage us to make careful & correct decisions when we are outside of the club. They care about us as a total person not just an athlete. Rick and the other coaches help us develop strong character. Being caring to everyone, being honest to team mates and coaches, respecting everyone even those who are challenging us at the moment, and always being responsible. Responsible with our training, our school work and how we act. Along with the great intense training, Rick and the coaches demonstrate and encourage these behaviors and core values to us all the time. I wish ESPN knew how great of a coach Rick really is." Many Spvb girls, my daughter included, will support Rick and the program however they can. I wouldn't want my daughter to have to choose to play anywhere else. Well, as long as he's doing a great job coaching your daughter I guess it's OK that he raped (criminal sexual abuse is the legal term) three of his players (I was told by people close to the situation that it was more than three) a long time ago. However, please post an answer to this question: Would you still support him if he raped your daughter?
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Post by bkedane on Jul 25, 2015 18:37:45 GMT -5
What was the age of consent in that state at that time? This is irrelevant, both legally and ethically/professionally. The fact that anyone would bring this up is atrocious. I'm sure everyone understands the ethical side of it, however the law also disregards age of consent in some scenarios, including for a person in a position of power/trust. www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/consent-sexual-activities-position-authority-and-trustCanadian law today, and also Illinois law today, may or may not be the same as Illinois law from more than 25 years ago.
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funvb
Junior High
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Post by funvb on Jul 25, 2015 18:38:05 GMT -5
/quote]Well, as long as he's doing a great job coaching your daughter I guess it's OK that he raped (criminal sexual abuse is the legal term) three of his players (I was told by people close to the situation that it was more than three) a long time ago. However, please post an answer to this question: Would you still support him if he raped your daughter?[/quote][b The Rick I know would never be inappropriate with my daughter. He has been nothing but professional. I can't speak to the time or the people involved. That's not my place. I can only speak to the present and the man coaching my child. He is a tough but fair coach. College sports is a competitive atmosphere. My daughter has learned to be a better teammate and a mentally tougher player. These are skills that will help her throughout her life regardless of whether she plays college volleyball or not.
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Post by n00b on Jul 25, 2015 18:54:33 GMT -5
For the record, I agree with you that it's ethically beyond atrocious for a coach to have sex with a minor player. I even find it ethically questinoable when coaches and adult players have relationships, due to the power differential. However, I recall the age of consent being 16 in Illinois at the time, and the link you cited refers to Canadian law, not US law. I don't know of US law expressly making it illegal for teachers/coaches/similar to have sex with players over the age of consent. So that, plus the statute of limitations, would explain why there were never criminal charges filed. I'm frankly really surprised that AAU doesn't have some sort of screening procedure for coaches, if only to cover their own butts. Edited to add: If you read the firsthand accounts from some of the players in question, it sure as heck doesn't sound consensual, even if they were (per Illinois law) old enough to consent. One says that she was saying "no, no, no" over and over again. That's not consensual. That's rape. The 1996 Sports Illustrated article said it was illegal... "[Butler] says he 'dated' all three of his accusers - but only after they had turned 18 (the age of sexual consent in Illinois when one party is in a position of trust, authority, or supervision over the other) and left the program."
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Post by vbshrink on Jul 25, 2015 19:01:52 GMT -5
The Rick I know would never be inappropriate with my daughter. He has been nothing but professional. I can't speak to the time or the people involved. That's not my place. I can only speak to the present and the man coaching my child. He is a tough but fair coach. College sports is a competitive atmosphere. My daughter has learned to be a better teammate and a mentally tougher player. These are skills that will help her throughout her life regardless of whether she plays college volleyball or not. I beg to differ. The "Rick you know" would and did "be inappropriate" with people's daughters. That you haven't experienced it is your good fortune. Serious question: Do you think the Bremners or the other sets of parents actually thought differently from you? Do you think they actually sat around thinking, "Yeah, he's a good coach, and he seems professional, but I wonder if he's sexually involved with our kid"?
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jul 25, 2015 19:06:49 GMT -5
For the record, I agree with you that it's ethically beyond atrocious for a coach to have sex with a minor player. I even find it ethically questinoable when coaches and adult players have relationships, due to the power differential. However, I recall the age of consent being 16 in Illinois at the time, and the link you cited refers to Canadian law, not US law. I don't know of US law expressly making it illegal for teachers/coaches/similar to have sex with players over the age of consent. So that, plus the statute of limitations, would explain why there were never criminal charges filed. I'm frankly really surprised that AAU doesn't have some sort of screening procedure for coaches, if only to cover their own butts. Edited to add: If you read the firsthand accounts from some of the players in question, it sure as heck doesn't sound consensual, even if they were (per Illinois law) old enough to consent. One says that she was saying "no, no, no" over and over again. That's not consensual. That's rape. The 1996 Sports Illustrated article said it was illegal... "[Butler] says he 'dated' all three of his accusers - but only after they had turned 18 (the age of sexual consent in Illinois when one party is in a position of trust, authority, or supervision over the other) and left the program." I stand corrected. Thanks.
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Post by vbnerd on Jul 25, 2015 19:23:47 GMT -5
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Post by dizzydean on Jul 25, 2015 20:20:55 GMT -5
/quote]Well, as long as he's doing a great job coaching your daughter I guess it's OK that he raped (criminal sexual abuse is the legal term) three of his players (I was told by people close to the situation that it was more than three) a long time ago. However, please post an answer to this question: Would you still support him if he raped your daughter? [b The Rick I know would never be inappropriate with my daughter. He has been nothing but professional. I can't speak to the time or the people involved. That's not my place. I can only speak to the present and the man coaching my child. He is a tough but fair coach. College sports is a competitive atmosphere. My daughter has learned to be a better teammate and a mentally tougher player. These are skills that will help her throughout her life regardless of whether she plays college volleyball or not. [/quote] I don't think I could have my kid play for him knowing what I know. Don't know how you do. All of this coming up now is a little irrelevant, though, because by all appearances Rick's behavior has changed for the balance of his career (off the court). So, how do you now discipline him for something that happened almost 30 years ago?
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Post by vbshrink on Jul 25, 2015 20:25:41 GMT -5
I don't think I could have my kid play for him knowing what I know. Don't know how you do. All of this coming up now is a little irrelevant, though, because by all appearances Rick's behavior has changed for the balance of his career (off the court). So, how do you now discipline him for something that happened almost 30 years ago? So ... what does the behavior of a guy who sexually abuses players appear like, exactly?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 20:55:52 GMT -5
For the record, I agree with you that it's ethically beyond atrocious for a coach to have sex with a minor player. I even find it ethically questinoable when coaches and adult players have relationships, due to the power differential. However, I recall the age of consent being 16 in Illinois at the time, and the link you cited refers to Canadian law, not US law. I don't know of US law expressly making it illegal for teachers/coaches/similar to have sex with players over the age of consent. So that, plus the statute of limitations, would explain why there were never criminal charges filed. I'm frankly really surprised that AAU doesn't have some sort of screening procedure for coaches, if only to cover their own butts. Edited to add: If you read the firsthand accounts from some of the players in question, it sure as heck doesn't sound consensual, even if they were (per Illinois law) old enough to consent. One says that she was saying "no, no, no" over and over again. That's not consensual. That's rape. I did not mean to post a Canadian law/site. Regardless, the humanitarian in me says this is wrong regardless of country or culture.
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Post by VBCOACH on Jul 25, 2015 20:57:47 GMT -5
/quote]Well, as long as he's doing a great job coaching your daughter I guess it's OK that he raped (criminal sexual abuse is the legal term) three of his players (I was told by people close to the situation that it was more than three) a long time ago. However, please post an answer to this question: Would you still support him if he raped your daughter? [b The Rick I know would never be inappropriate with my daughter. He has been nothing but professional. I can't speak to the time or the people involved. That's not my place. I can only speak to the present and the man coaching my child. He is a tough but fair coach. College sports is a competitive atmosphere. My daughter has learned to be a better teammate and a mentally tougher player. These are skills that will help her throughout her life regardless of whether she plays college volleyball or not. [/quote][/p]
You didn't answer my question. I know that you support Rick (and he is a great volleyball coach) even though he raped several girls in the past. WOULD YOU STILL SUPPORT HIM IF YOUR DAUGHTER WAS ONE OF THE GIRLS THAT HE RAPED?
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jul 25, 2015 20:59:43 GMT -5
For the record, I agree with you that it's ethically beyond atrocious for a coach to have sex with a minor player. I even find it ethically questinoable when coaches and adult players have relationships, due to the power differential. However, I recall the age of consent being 16 in Illinois at the time, and the link you cited refers to Canadian law, not US law. I don't know of US law expressly making it illegal for teachers/coaches/similar to have sex with players over the age of consent. So that, plus the statute of limitations, would explain why there were never criminal charges filed. I'm frankly really surprised that AAU doesn't have some sort of screening procedure for coaches, if only to cover their own butts. Edited to add: If you read the firsthand accounts from some of the players in question, it sure as heck doesn't sound consensual, even if they were (per Illinois law) old enough to consent. One says that she was saying "no, no, no" over and over again. That's not consensual. That's rape. I did not mean to post a Canadian law/site. Regardless, the humanitarian in me says this is wrong regardless of country or culture. I agree completely. Also, a re-reading of the SI article shows that I'm wrong - Illinois law seems to have had a carve-out age of consent when one party is in a position of trust or authority over the other. Coaches/teachers should not have sexual relationships with their players/students. Even if the players/students are over 18, IMO.
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