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Post by sportsfun on Oct 4, 2015 21:21:40 GMT -5
How many sporting events are you missing while they very obviously give you the run around? If their past behavior is any indicator of the outcome it doesn't look good. There is an arrogance and flippancy that they tend to exude. I hope you go to the media if the situation isn't rectified. You couldn't have been more gracious or sensible in your response. I can't say I would have been able to do so. Please keep us posted.
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Post by touchline on Oct 5, 2015 21:20:34 GMT -5
Was wondering if they haven't already read this thread or flagged it themselves with special software, Would it be beneficial to send the link for this thread to the Duke University Athletic Department contacts and administration ? I don't think they can stop me from posting information I have and interpretations on the internet.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Oct 5, 2015 23:01:18 GMT -5
Was wondering if they haven't already read this thread or flagged it themselves with special software, Would it be beneficial to send the link for this thread to the Duke University Athletic Department contacts and administration ? I don't think they can stop me from posting information I have and interpretations on the internet. I'd hold off thumbing your nose at them until you can appeal that ticket and, hopefully, get it dismissed. Otherwise, they're liable to just circle the wagons.
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Post by luckydawg on Oct 6, 2015 0:41:59 GMT -5
Without questioning the accuracy of Touchline's description of events, please remember that it is just one side of what happened. It would be interesting to hear the point of view of others at the match. Hopefully, he will post a copy of the incident report when he gets it.
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 6, 2015 3:23:28 GMT -5
I'm recent to the forum, have lurked and poked around here and there. I was at a match at a Large Division 1 private institution not too long ago. I had been to matches here several times over the years and have had no problems or issues. I had even got to know some of the other local club coaches who attended over the years. I was bit vocal on this day regarding some slight criticism of one of the OH's play. I did see a few parents glance over at me. Didn't think it was a big deal. Once the match had ended I was standing on the bleachers waiting to see if any people I know might be there. There was the typical post match activity on court with parents, athletes and students talking and doing photos etc. After waiting around, sending messages on my phone and people watching a bit, One group even asked me to take a photo of them with their student athlete. There was some staff there standing around and cleaning up. I walked out the arena towards my car when a group of campus police officers approach me. They start interrogating me asking me who I knew there etc. I told them I was there for the match and was leaving. They ask for my ID and do a check. They claimed a few parents had called in claiming there was a person making them feel uneasy by standing there. I was forced to wait for almost 15 minutes before I was handed a ticket for "Suspicious Loitering" and given a trespass ban from University property. They informed me that it was private property and that they can ask me to leave for any reason. I tried to prob and find out what this was all about and they informed me that I had to write to the University Police regarding the issue. They told me the parents had complained to the coaching staff as well. The following week I followed up with a letter to the coaching staff as well as the Athletic Facilities Director, and got the stock response of please correspond with the Police. I emailed the university police asking for an explanation of what the issue was and requested that they remove this trespassing as I have attended many events on the campus including several other sports and have a good record. I even told them to check the survellance footage. They write me a letter informing me that they are upholding the trespass ban. No other details were provided Now I am of middle eastern origin and felt that someone may have sized me up after the match and profiled me. I wrote back the Campus Police and the Head Coach along with the Director of Athletic Facilities. I was asking for details regarding the people that had made the accusation against me. Inquiring if perhaps some profiling had occurred. I even provided them my phone #. I mentioned that I had tickets to other athletic events that I would not be able to use. The next day I get an email from one of the School's lawyer's and he writes asking me to send receipts of my ticket purchases and they would provide a refund of my unusable tickets. He tells me to strictly contact him regarding matters. Now I've attended matches at dozens of schools and this was the only time something like this has happened. It seems strange that a group of parents can start accusing and influence the staff to do something like this. I plan on attending a match with some friends at another school were this school is playing as a road team. I don't want to let that group intimidate me or prevent me from enjoying the match. I plan to sit with the home team's fans. Is there something I can do to make sure they don't get away with just accusing me without any proof? I was planning on using my camera phone if necessary to record any situations. This type of thing would never happen at sports like football,basketball,women's basketball. I sometimes wonder if its the nature of over protective parents involved with the sport these days. I don't fault the coaching staff because they would rather please vocal parents than some random spectator. But this is Division 1 scholarship athletics, there are gonna be fans you like and don't like at a match. Just for future reference, this is 100% false. Per federal law, private property used as a public accommodation (like a university sports event) are subject to plenty of laws that bar the owners of the property from acting in certain ways. Owning private property doesn't give proprietors carte blanche freedom to do whatever they please. Just like the restaurants owners who posts signs who say "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone", just because a sign says it or some person says it, doesn't make it legally enforceable. I'm not sure if the Duke police have the legal responsibility to tell you why they want you to leave, but they don't have the right to force you to leave under discriminating circumstances. I don't know all the facts of what happened, but I do know that much.
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 6, 2015 3:30:45 GMT -5
Was wondering if they haven't already read this thread or flagged it themselves with special software, Would it be beneficial to send the link for this thread to the Duke University Athletic Department contacts and administration ? I don't think they can stop me from posting information I have and interpretations on the internet. They cannot. While campus police usually have specially granted powers by the state to make arrests for state and local crimes and to issue tickets for very specific infractions, Duke University, as an entity, can't force you to do or not do anything in your private life. Only courts of law and executive agencies can "force" you to do or not do something and since you have no case pending against you (either against the state or a civil complaint against you), you don't need to worry about any sort of gag order. Secondly, this information was given to you and wasn't obtained illegally.
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Post by maplespear on Oct 6, 2015 5:41:09 GMT -5
In a recent verdict, Shopko (a store like K-mart here in Omaha) has to pay $750k to a shoplifter who received skull fractures, brain bleeding, and other multiple injuries, from the security guards. The shoplifter had a pair of tweezers and nail clippers. He was of Mexican decent. I couldn't believe it.
Really sorry you went through this. You will have to choose your fights.
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Post by Not Me on Oct 6, 2015 7:50:35 GMT -5
It's amazing that you people automatically assume racism and discrimination. You have no idea what happened or what this person actually did.
Take away his statement about his ethnicity, and I bet your opinion changes quickly.
By his own admission he was sitting in the stands heckling a player. Then after the match he is standing in the stands by him self just looking around at the players and their families.
How would you react if you were a parent and your daughter showed up after the match and complain about a guy in the stands. If the players feel uncomfortable about a spectator based on what they said what should be done?
I'm not saying this is what happened, but that has as much chance a of being accurate as your racial bias assumption.
The only fact we know is that we are not given all the facts. But in the Internet world today people love to jump to conclusions without the facts.
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 6, 2015 9:05:46 GMT -5
It's amazing that you people automatically assume racism and discrimination. You have no idea what happened or what this person actually did. Take away his statement about his ethnicity, and I bet your opinion changes quickly. By his own admission he was sitting in the stands heckling a player. Then after the match he is standing in the stands by him self just looking around at the players and their families. How would you react if you were a parent and your daughter showed up after the match and complain about a guy in the stands. If the players feel uncomfortable about a spectator based on what they said what should be done? I'm not saying this is what happened, but that has as much chance a of being accurate as your racial bias assumption. The only fact we know is that we are not given all the facts. But in the Internet world today people love to jump to conclusions without the facts. Just standing around is not hurting anyone. The area was obviously still open to the spectators, because other spectators were still there. You shouldn't be able to be ticketed and banned from campus just because someone took a dislike to you standing around there.
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Post by vbman100 on Oct 6, 2015 9:07:39 GMT -5
It's amazing that you people automatically assume racism and discrimination. You have no idea what happened or what this person actually did. Take away his statement about his ethnicity, and I bet your opinion changes quickly. By his own admission he was sitting in the stands heckling a player. Then after the match he is standing in the stands by him self just looking around at the players and their families. How would you react if you were a parent and your daughter showed up after the match and complain about a guy in the stands. If the players feel uncomfortable about a spectator based on what they said what should be done? I'm not saying this is what happened, but that has as much chance a of being accurate as your racial bias assumption. The only fact we know is that we are not given all the facts. But in the Internet world today people love to jump to conclusions without the facts. I am with you since we only have one side and will probably never get the other side. However, if he received a ticket for 'suspicious loitering' and cannot get the incident report, something is fishy here. We are not completely on the side of the OP because of the comments he made about a player, but that is supposedly not what he was reprimanded for. He probably was saying things he shouldn't have said, about inexperience, errors, and it was enough to get people to turn their heads, he was probably pushing it a little too far. They could have said 'your comments during the match were inappropriate and we do not wish for you to return. If you wish to attend Duke events, we ask that you support the student-athletes and refrain from the negative comments you made. Fans and families wish to enjoy the event'. They could have asked him to leave during the event if it was because of his comments, especially if it is free admission. That is not a violation of free speech. Instead, they confront him afterward and give him a ticket for loitering. If that is all true, something is wrong here. And if you have ever watched Duke basketball games, you know that they don't care very much about fan behavior.
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 6, 2015 9:13:54 GMT -5
It's amazing that you people automatically assume racism and discrimination. You have no idea what happened or what this person actually did. Take away his statement about his ethnicity, and I bet your opinion changes quickly. By his own admission he was sitting in the stands heckling a player. Then after the match he is standing in the stands by him self just looking around at the players and their families. How would you react if you were a parent and your daughter showed up after the match and complain about a guy in the stands. If the players feel uncomfortable about a spectator based on what they said what should be done? I'm not saying this is what happened, but that has as much chance a of being accurate as your racial bias assumption. The only fact we know is that we are not given all the facts. But in the Internet world today people love to jump to conclusions without the facts. I am with you since we only have one side and will probably never get the other side. However, if he received a ticket for 'suspicious loitering' and cannot get the incident report, something is fishy here. We are not completely on the side of the OP because of the comments he made about a player, but that is supposedly not what he was reprimanded for. He probably was saying things he shouldn't have said, about inexperience, errors, and it was enough to get people to turn their heads, he was probably pushing it a little too far. They could have said 'your comments during the match were inappropriate and we do not wish for you to return. If you wish to attend Duke events, we ask that you support the student-athletes and refrain from the negative comments you made. Fans and families wish to enjoy the event'. They could have asked him to leave during the event if it was because of his comments, especially if it is free admission. That is not a violation of free speech. Instead, they confront him afterward and give him a ticket for loitering. If that is all true, something is wrong here. And if you have ever watched Duke basketball games, you know that they don't care very much about fan behavior. Ha! Duke, of all places, banning fans because they make inappropriate comments during a match? They would have to ban their entire student body from all basketball games.
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Post by Phillytom on Oct 6, 2015 9:22:38 GMT -5
Safety is a big thing to colleges these days. I would guess the school is motivated by trying to ensure the safety of its players. Somebody saw a safety risk, so the school acted. The lawyers get involved when they see something that could be liability for them. If a fan is acting out of the ordinary in way that makes players fearful, they are going to act.
If you were an employee of the university you would have due process rights, but as a buyer of tickets I'm not sure you do -- probably the terms of the ticket purchase give them blanket rights to ban you if they see fit.
Yes you could probably sue them and spend $10,000, but it is not at all a sure thing that you would win -- as long as they maintain that they were acting reasonably to ensure the safety of their players.
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Post by tomclen on Oct 6, 2015 9:24:43 GMT -5
I have no idea of the facts in this case. Most of us don't, except for the OP and the other people who were involved in the 'incident.'
But it does remind me a little of the blurred lines of pseudo anonymity that have been created by an online culture.
Most posters on VT have a masked, private identity. As a result, many of us write comments that we'd likely never say face-to-face to someone. Sporting events are somewhat similar. You see people screaming obscenities and negative comments towards players, coaches and refs. But there are thousands of people in the stands, so they blend in.
Volleyball is usually different. Outside of Nebraska and Hawaii, most venues have a couple thousand, or in some cases, a few hundred fans. So each individual stands out a little more...or a lot more.
At Duke, it looks like they sometimes draw crowds in the 1,500 to 2,000 range. But sometimes a lot less. The Wake Forest match had an attendance of only 617.
Screaming something negative about a player at Duke basketball game with 9,300 fans won't get much attention. Yelling something negative about a player at a volleyball game with 617 fans is likely to get you noticed. And if you hang around later, after 575 of those fans have left the arena, you're likely going to stand out in a less than positive fashion to most observers.
Again, I have no idea what actually happened in the case discussed in this thread. But I do think we're living in a time of two conflicting realities: 1.) A safe-behind-the-keyboard mentality that leads people to believe they can say pretty much anything; 2.) A skittish-see-something-say-something paranoia that makes some react to the slightest offense.
If you do think its okay to yell negative comments about a volleyball player in front of her family and friends, you might want to reconsider hanging around with the family and friends after the match.
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Post by StanfordFan on Oct 6, 2015 10:25:32 GMT -5
1. For campus police to actually issue a citation and a ban on further access to campus would require, in my view, something far beyond criticism of a player. It may not be polite, and I personally don't like it, but many believe it is part of sport to heckle opposing players.
2. If the heckling were that extreme, then something should have been done immediately. Not after the spectator left. I linger after games too just because I like to see the players after they've relaxed. I'm a middle age guy, usually attending games alone. What makes this such a threat that authorities can't just check in, as opposed to issue a citation/notice of trespass?
3. If the OP is just making up a story, then he's gone pretty far in order to create false emails from Duke's "Law Fellow". At this point, I'd love to hear more on developments. If the emails are true, Duke is sticking to its guns, and while it may be North Carolina, Duke has a mighty valuable reputation as an elite liberal arts institution on the line.
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Post by bigfanofbigfan on Oct 6, 2015 11:15:26 GMT -5
It's amazing that you people automatically assume racism and discrimination. You have no idea what happened or what this person actually did. Take away his statement about his ethnicity, and I bet your opinion changes quickly. By his own admission he was sitting in the stands heckling a player. Then after the match he is standing in the stands by him self just looking around at the players and their families. How would you react if you were a parent and your daughter showed up after the match and complain about a guy in the stands. If the players feel uncomfortable about a spectator based on what they said what should be done? I'm not saying this is what happened, but that has as much chance a of being accurate as your racial bias assumption. The only fact we know is that we are not given all the facts. But in the Internet world today people love to jump to conclusions without the facts. Firstly, you are right. We only hear 1 side of the story and our response to his allegations reflect that. However, I think the op has given us quite a fair story of what happened, especially in regards to the aftermath on the interactions between the op and the university. I think the university is not really taking this issue seriously or have no respect for this individual for giving him a run around. Again, I said this base solely on his account of what happened, the university hasn't said anything publicly to tell their side of the story because to them, there is no story. I want to know exactly the words used by the op when heckling, would make a world of difference on how I feel about the issue. Everybody in my family played sports throughout high school and college. Being heckled is part of sports and you just deal with it. It is tough to sit on the bleacher and hear strangers heckled my dad, mom, brothers and sisters but they know and I know it's quite normal. We just suck it up and put on big boys and big girls panties and deal with it. Don't want to get heckled? Don't play sports. We want to protect the safety of our loved ones but unless there were actual physical threats directing at somebody, I think you should just let it slide.
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