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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 3, 2019 21:27:53 GMT -5
I read a few more and I can sort of see how the lack of missions and a "create your own game" world can be labeled "sandbox," while mission-oriented games can be more "open world," despite the fact that you are still "creating your own game." But the latter is mission-driven even if you don't do any missions because there is a story, while the former may not even have a set story.
Other than perhaps early 1990s Civilization, I have no experience with these "create your own game" games. Maybe Sim City?
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 3, 2019 21:58:28 GMT -5
www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132470/the_history_and_theory_of_sandbox_.phpThat's a pretty decent discussion of "sandbox" and how it got to be what it is. Sim City had a sandbox mode, and it's arguable that the sandbox mode was really the main appeal of the game. I think it did have a campaign though. Can't remember. Civilization always has had victory conditions. It derives from a board game of the same name that also has victory conditions. Many games have sandbox-type gameplay or even a sandbox mode. Very few are just totally sandbox, because often complete sandboxes are boring. KSP is arguably not completely sandbox, as there is now a DLC offering (that I never bought) that allows people to build missions and campaigns. But the base game (even in career mode) is totally sandbox. The thing is, if you drop people into a solar system and you give them the ability to build rockets, there is a natural "plot" that already exists -- "let's go visit other planets"! KSP didn't have to build in a plot because everybody already knows what the goal is. (Despite this, people have built cars in KSP and driven all over Kerbin. People have built ships. People have built submarines! Nothing in KSP says "you have to fly to space", although the name of the game is "Kerbal Space Program" and for most people that is always going to be the most natural thing to do.) The article I referenced also mentions flight simulators, and those could be good examples. Some of them are just literally simulators. You pick the airplane and the airports and make the flight. That's all there is. With something like Skyrim you can just wander around and explore if you want, but you keep being offered quests and you have the main plot quest (which you can ignore if you want). However, there are mods that can remove the main plot quest, and that changes the game so much that people have done blogs about "walking the world" of Skyrim and totally ignoring the plot of the game. Skyrim is an open-world RPG game with sandbox elements that can be experienced sandbox-style if you want, but it's not a sandbox game. KSP is a sandbox game.
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Post by mln59 on Dec 12, 2019 20:07:46 GMT -5
last night i beat a training mission in nioh. i have to do these types of missions periodically to unlock the next tier of abilities. this one was difficult.
i beat it by locking on to the target and then circling a tree. the tree blocked all of the ranged attacks and i was able to get enough hits in to bring this eagle/man creature thing down.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 12, 2019 20:43:09 GMT -5
I have been playing Factorio.
Like KSP, Factorio keeps getting updated and changed. KSP went "1.0" several years ago, although quite a few major changes have been added since (now at 1.8.1). Factorio is still officially in "pre-release" at 0.17.x.
KSP is one of those games where the modding community is such an important part of the game that it's quite rare to play it unmodded. I do it from time to time just to find out what the latest changes to the base game have been.
Factorio also has tons of mods, but I've never tried any of them.
Factorio (unlike KSP) has enemies in it. You can turn them off, but otherwise they exist to attack you. The mechanism is interesting -- your factories produce pollution, the wind blows that pollution around, and as the colonies of enemies ("biters" and "spitters") get irritated by the pollution they come to attack your factory. So the bigger and more productive your factory is, the more it gets attacked.
The thing that limits Factorio most, IMO, is that while there are endless possibilities for how to design a factory, all the factories have the exact same goals. Build science packs (of six different types), build rockets, and defend against enemies. Once you've done it a few times then every playthough starts seeming very much like the previous one. However, as they have tweaked the balance and changed things over the years they have also changed some of the formulas for the science packs. That means you do have to make some new factory lines.
I think it would be great if there were alternative recipes that could be used to make the different science packs. Then you would have to assess the natural resources around you and figure out which of the different ways to build them were appropriate for your starting location. However, if they complicated the gameplay in that respect, they might be forced to simplify it in other respects.
They do have some aspects of gameplay that are choice-driven like this. You can make more of your processing electrified or driven by burning fuel. If you have lots of coal you can use coal as your fuel, or if you have lots of oil you can process it into a more efficient fuel to replace the coal. You can generate your electricity from steam boilers, or you can build a nuclear power plant. Nuclear power requires a lot of technology and resources, but once you have it you can get vastly more power than you can from burning coal. And you can transport things around your factory by hand (very inefficient), by using conveyor belts (very efficient but involves much spatial planning), or by using flying robots (not as much throughput as belts and use a lot of electricity, but much more flexible than belts). You can also build a network of trains that works well to move things around over longer distances compared to the belts or the robots.
Anyway, I'm probably nearing the point where I'll be satisfied that I've done what I wanted to do with this latest version. Then I'll switch to playing other games until the roll out a version 0.18 (or even a version 1.0).
They have created a new tutorial campaign that shows how they could easily turn Factorio into more of a campaign/mission type game. In fact, it wouldn't be that hard to morph it into something like a RTS game. But I suspect they will keep it more oriented toward "freeplay" mode, where the lack of a plot tends to encourage people to just go out and build stuff for the fun of building it (similar to Minecraft).
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Post by mln59 on Dec 14, 2019 9:43:17 GMT -5
gonna play nioh a bunch today after i run some errands
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Post by mln59 on Dec 14, 2019 13:35:00 GMT -5
gonna play nioh a bunch today after i run some errands done with my chores and errands. got the game fired up and the radio on. gonna veg out today and tomorrow and rest up for the holiday break....
.....during which i will rest bigly.
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Post by mln59 on Dec 14, 2019 14:31:16 GMT -5
totally forgot that my character can't swim. walked into a pool and promptly drowned
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Post by mln59 on Dec 14, 2019 17:27:31 GMT -5
made it to another boss battle. enclosed in a rectangular area with nowhere to run. not good.
have to learn the attacks and figure out what to do
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 14, 2019 18:06:47 GMT -5
made it to another boss battle. enclosed in a rectangular area with nowhere to run. not good. This is why I quit Assassin's Creed Odyssey. Got stuck in a box with Medusa, who a) had to be killed three times, b) calls an ever-increasing number of helper minions to attack you, and c) has a checkpoint that goes back to the start of the fight but not before (so you can't just come back later). So Fing annoying that I just stopped playing the game.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 14, 2019 18:17:54 GMT -5
I don't mind difficulty. In fact, I like "fair but fun" difficulty. XCOM! But I hate grindy difficulty (I am SO OVER the "must kill three times" thing). And I hate unfair difficulty.
Although ... certain unfair fights can be rewarding. A classic example is in games when you first encounter a fight that is WAY over your level, and it kills you ASAP until you learn to just run like a rabbit and get the F away. But when you later come back and are now leveled up and say, "I pity da fool!" as you kill that formerly scary opponent? That's fun.
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Post by mln59 on Dec 14, 2019 18:38:16 GMT -5
this boss has a big leaping attack. not sure if i can block it. it's pretty much fatal if i get hit
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 21:45:37 GMT -5
I used to game using a PC but I am looking more into console gaming. Is an Xbox One S or PS4 still worth it with the announcement of the next gen consoles that will have backward compatibility?
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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 14, 2019 21:56:05 GMT -5
I used to game using a PC but I am looking more into console gaming. Is an Xbox One S or PS4 still worth it with the announcement of the next gen consoles that will have backward compatibility? Yes, for several reasons: 1. The current gen console will be cheaper than the next gen console. 2. There are lots and lots of great games for the current gen. Many will get cheaper and cheaper as the years go by. You'll be able to play great games 5-8 years (or however long your console lives) AFTER the introduction of the next gen console. 3. Next gen console games will be expensive, e.g., $50 minimum. 4. By the time your current gen console dies or you're super ready for the next gen, the price of the next gen console would have gone down. This may be anywhere from 3-6 years AFTER the introduction of the next gen console. 5. By the time you've purchased the next gen console, which may be 3-6 years AFTER the introduction of the next gen console (see #4 above), the price of the next gen games would also have gone down. The PS3 was released in 2006, but I didn't buy it until 2012. In 2013, the PS4 was released but I kept playing PS3 games because there were so many good ones -- an at a very cheap price. I finally bought the PS4 in late 2017 and am now playing PS4 games. These don't have backward compatibility but the point I'm trying to make is that you will still play great (and cheap!) games for as long as your console lives and as the years go by, they get cheaper and cheaper. Of course, if you don't care about money, go for the next gen. I'm pretty conservative and smart with my money. I don't overspend on anything (90% of the time) and I try to take advantage of sales, promos, and discounts whenever possible.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 23:01:33 GMT -5
I used to game using a PC but I am looking more into console gaming. Is an Xbox One S or PS4 still worth it with the announcement of the next gen consoles that will have backward compatibility? Yes, for several reasons: 1. The current gen console will be cheaper than the next gen console. 2. There are lots and lots of great games for the current gen. Many will get cheaper and cheaper as the years go by. You'll be able to play great games 5-8 years (or however long your console lives) AFTER the introduction of the next gen console. 3. Next gen console games will be expensive, e.g., $50 minimum. 4. By the time your current gen console dies or you're super ready for the next gen, the price of the next gen console would have gone down. This may be anywhere from 3-6 years AFTER the introduction of the next gen console. 5. By the time you've purchased the next gen console, which may be 3-6 years AFTER the introduction of the next gen console (see #4 above), the price of the next gen games would also have gone down. The PS3 was released in 2006, but I didn't buy it until 2012. In 2013, the PS4 was released but I kept playing PS3 games because there were so many good ones -- an at a very cheap price. I finally bought the PS4 in late 2017 and am now playing PS4 games. These don't have backward compatibility but the point I'm trying to make is that you will still play great (and cheap!) games for as long as your console lives and as the years go by, they get cheaper and cheaper. Of course, if you don't care about money, go for the next gen. I'm pretty conservative and smart with my money. I don't overspend on anything (90% of the time) and I try to take advantage of sales, promos, and discounts whenever possible. Those are great points. I owned a PS4 in its early release but the games were limited at the time and only remember playing Infamous Second Son and The Last of Us Re-mastered before giving it to a family member. Have played PC exclusively since. Going to have to look into which console to purchase, I should have jumped on the Black Friday deals when they were available but a new GPU was tempting.
Can't make up my mind between a PS4 and an Xbox One but leaning towards the PS4 because of God of War.
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Post by mln59 on Dec 15, 2019 18:01:09 GMT -5
this boss has a big leaping attack. not sure if i can block it. it's pretty much fatal if i get hit just beat this boss
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