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Post by ironhammer on Nov 14, 2017 23:56:22 GMT -5
But their train business remains highly competitive. Their GE Evolution series of locomotives are outselling its GM competitors. Does not make sense to sell it according to Walch's rules. Seems more like a short-term measure to boost share values and please the shareholders, although in the long-term, losing the locomotive business may not necessarily be good for GE. Well, the whole point back then was to leverage market share into profitability. From what I have read, the units that GE is proposing to sell are their less-profitable units. Anyway, it's not my business anymore. I stopped working for them back in 1990. Well I used to be a GE shareholder, and when I looked at their financial statements, the transportation segment wasn't their least-profitable dept. That was some years ago of course, so things might have changed I guess. Interesting enough, at its peak, GE Financial earned almost half of the total profits for GE, but now GE has mostly spun off its financial arm. Btw, you worked at GE? So you worked for GE Aviation I presumed (or GE Aircraft Engines as it used to called)? So you worked on the TF-39? CF-6? CFM-56? Or those military engines like F110 for the F-14 and F-16?
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Post by ironhammer on Nov 15, 2017 0:10:43 GMT -5
But their train business remains highly competitive. Their GE Evolution series of locomotives are outselling its GM competitors. Does not make sense to sell it according to Walch's rules. Seems more like a short-term measure to boost share values and please the shareholders, although in the long-term, losing the locomotive business may not necessarily be good for GE. GM sold off EMD over a decade ago. Caterpillar owns them now. The freight locomotive business is certainly dominated by GE. Passenger rail is different though. I don’t believe they’ve delivered a passenger locomotive in over 15 years. Probably not much money in it. Amtrak has a fleet dominated by the Genesis Series. They do look odd next to a Dash-8 though. The passenger locomotive business are a relatively small part of the market in America. Passenger rail after all is a minor transportation segment in the US, apart from a few exceptions like the Northeast corridor and Chicago. So it's no surprise that GE transportation's profits derive mostly from freight locomotives like the Dash-8 and now the Evolution series. The passenger train market (internationally) are dominated by non-US manufacturers like Bombardier (in Canada), Alstom (France), Siemens (Germany), CAF (Spain), , Hitachi and Kawasaki (in Japan) and CRRC (in China). All of them also happen to build high speed trains, which is mostly absent in America. In contrast, the key passenger rail market (including high speed rail) are in Europe and East Asia. In addittion, those manufacturers now mostly build EMU (Electric Multiple Units) for passenger rail, as opposed to traditional locomotives like GE.
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Post by ironhammer on Nov 15, 2017 0:18:13 GMT -5
So GE is planning to stop being a conglomerate? Conventional bulbs...ok, that is a sunset industry being replaced by LED technology. I understand selling that. But the transportation business? Last time I checked, locomotives are still used to haul freight trains, marine diesels is still the predominant form of engine driving ship and boats. Seems rather questionable to sell off that big chunk of the company. Are their locomotive products now less competitive (unlikely, since the GE Evolution Series is selling pretty well)? Is that division being mismanaged (not really, there are no mass firings/layoffs there)?. Hmmm....I suppose in the short-term, selling off these key assets will improve the bottom line for the shareholders, but in the long-term, I'm not really sure this will help the company much. I suppose transportation could be at a state where the profits are relatively minor. Most newer versions are more evolutionary than revolutionary. The Genesis was state of the art but that's a 20 year old design and they don't seem to be interested in that market any more. I mean - how much can diesel engines be developed? Still - the diesel-electric locomotive fits right into GE's other businesses. It's basically a diesel generator on wheels.Freight locomotives are a mature industry in the sense that they don't need radical breakthroughs in technology to sustain their profitability. International passenger rail is different though, with the advent high-speed rail overseas, it is now a viable competitor to airlines along certain routes.
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Post by mikegarrison on Nov 15, 2017 2:02:33 GMT -5
Btw, you worked at GE? So you worked for GE Aviation I presumed (or GE Aircraft Engines as it used to called)? So you worked on the TF-39? CF-6? CFM-56? Or those military engines like F110 for the F-14 and F-16? Yes and no. I worked for GEAE (as they were called at the time) in their Lynn plant. So I worked on smaller engines. Mostly T700 helicopter engines and F404 fighter engines.
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Post by BearClause on Nov 15, 2017 12:14:18 GMT -5
GM sold off EMD over a decade ago. Caterpillar owns them now. The freight locomotive business is certainly dominated by GE. Passenger rail is different though. I don’t believe they’ve delivered a passenger locomotive in over 15 years. Probably not much money in it. Amtrak has a fleet dominated by the Genesis Series. They do look odd next to a Dash-8 though. The passenger locomotive business are a relatively small part of the market in America. Passenger rail after all is a minor transportation segment in the US, apart from a few exceptions like the Northeast corridor and Chicago. So it's no surprise that GE transportation's profits derive mostly from freight locomotives like the Dash-8 and now the Evolution series. The passenger train market (internationally) are dominated by non-US manufacturers like Bombardier (in Canada), Alstom (France), Siemens (Germany), CAF (Spain), , Hitachi and Kawasaki (in Japan) and CRRC (in China). All of them also happen to build high speed trains, which is mostly absent in America. In contrast, the key passenger rail market (including high speed rail) are in Europe and East Asia. In addittion, those manufacturers now mostly build EMU (Electric Multiple Units) for passenger rail, as opposed to traditional locomotives like GE. Siemens is building the diesel locomotives that are being purchased by the state agencies that fund corridor Amtrak routes. The diesel engines are made by Cummins though even though the European versions use a German engine. I suppose newer passenger locomotives are designed so they don't look like freight locomotives. And of course they operate pulling smaller loads at higher speeds, plus have head-end power demands. Amtrak recently retired its last AEM-7 electric locomotives made by EMD. I'm not sure EMD was interested (GE definitely wasn't) and the replacement was made by Siemens.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Nov 15, 2017 13:48:42 GMT -5
An LED bulb in the hallway in our building went dark. My neighbor was convinced there was a problem with the wiring because he'd never had one go out before.
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Post by BearClause on Nov 15, 2017 14:35:44 GMT -5
An LED bulb in the hallway in our building went dark. My neighbor was convinced there was a problem with the wiring because he'd never had one go out before. They can go if the board malfunctions. A modern LED bulb/array is far more complicated than the old setup of a simple power supply, LED, and resistor. You're always dealing with a bathtub curve for failures. However, the vast majority of these devices will last over a decade, although the light output will start to drop over time.
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Post by ironhammer on Nov 15, 2017 21:33:02 GMT -5
The passenger locomotive business are a relatively small part of the market in America. Passenger rail after all is a minor transportation segment in the US, apart from a few exceptions like the Northeast corridor and Chicago. So it's no surprise that GE transportation's profits derive mostly from freight locomotives like the Dash-8 and now the Evolution series. The passenger train market (internationally) are dominated by non-US manufacturers like Bombardier (in Canada), Alstom (France), Siemens (Germany), CAF (Spain), , Hitachi and Kawasaki (in Japan) and CRRC (in China). All of them also happen to build high speed trains, which is mostly absent in America. In contrast, the key passenger rail market (including high speed rail) are in Europe and East Asia. In addittion, those manufacturers now mostly build EMU (Electric Multiple Units) for passenger rail, as opposed to traditional locomotives like GE. Siemens is building the diesel locomotives that are being purchased by the state agencies that fund corridor Amtrak routes. The diesel engines are made by Cummins though even though the European versions use a German engine. I suppose newer passenger locomotives are designed so they don't look like freight locomotives. And of course they operate pulling smaller loads at higher speeds, plus have head-end power demands. Amtrak recently retired its last AEM-7 electric locomotives made by EMD. I'm not sure EMD was interested (GE definitely wasn't) and the replacement was made by Siemens. The US is a small market for Siemens. Worth enough to bid on it, but globally, many passenger rail, especially in the more developed markets, are electric locomotives or EMU, something GE hasn't made in years.
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Post by BearClause on Nov 15, 2017 22:33:46 GMT -5
Siemens is building the diesel locomotives that are being purchased by the state agencies that fund corridor Amtrak routes. The diesel engines are made by Cummins though even though the European versions use a German engine. I suppose newer passenger locomotives are designed so they don't look like freight locomotives. And of course they operate pulling smaller loads at higher speeds, plus have head-end power demands. Amtrak recently retired its last AEM-7 electric locomotives made by EMD. I'm not sure EMD was interested (GE definitely wasn't) and the replacement was made by Siemens. The US is a small market for Siemens. Worth enough to bid on it, but globally, many passenger rail, especially in the more developed markets, are electric locomotives or EMU, something GE hasn't made in years. They wouldn't really have to do anything like create a new design since the Siemens Charger was based on a European locomotive. I don't think GE or EMD are interested in making an electric locomotive at this point in time. SMART in Marin just bought several Nippon Sharyo DMUs. Their deliveries did get delayed because of a flaw in the Cummins engine used. Caltrain is supposed to be using EMUs once their electrification project is complete. Of course you never know who goes into big vehicle projects on the promise of learning on the job. I remember how disastrous the Vertol light rail vehicles were. I used to ride them to musical training in San Francisco.
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Post by ironhammer on Nov 15, 2017 23:50:31 GMT -5
The US is a small market for Siemens. Worth enough to bid on it, but globally, many passenger rail, especially in the more developed markets, are electric locomotives or EMU, something GE hasn't made in years. They wouldn't really have to do anything like create a new design since the Siemens Charger was based on a European locomotive. I don't think GE or EMD are interested in making an electric locomotive at this point in time. SMART in Marin just bought several Nippon Sharyo DMUs. Their deliveries did get delayed because of a flaw in the Cummins engine used. Caltrain is supposed to be using EMUs once their electrification project is complete. Of course you never know who goes into big vehicle projects on the promise of learning on the job. I remember how disastrous the Vertol light rail vehicles were. I used to ride them to musical training in San Francisco. Well, Bombardier, Alstom, Siemens and others have cornered the electric locomotives and EMU market, so it would be rather hard for GE to enter that market without significant investment. And if GE is planning to sell off its transportation business, such investment would not be likely anyway.
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Post by BearClause on Nov 16, 2017 0:10:34 GMT -5
They wouldn't really have to do anything like create a new design since the Siemens Charger was based on a European locomotive. I don't think GE or EMD are interested in making an electric locomotive at this point in time. SMART in Marin just bought several Nippon Sharyo DMUs. Their deliveries did get delayed because of a flaw in the Cummins engine used. Caltrain is supposed to be using EMUs once their electrification project is complete. Of course you never know who goes into big vehicle projects on the promise of learning on the job. I remember how disastrous the Vertol light rail vehicles were. I used to ride them to musical training in San Francisco. Well, Bombardier, Alstom, Siemens and others have cornered the electric locomotives and EMU market, so it would be rather hard for GE to enter that market without significant investment. And if GE is planning to sell off its transportation business, such investment would not be likely anyway. EMD wasn't interested any more. My understanding is that GE basically gave up on electric-only locomotives after the GE E60 debacle. Something about being limited (due to risk of derailing at faster speeds) to 90 MPH on the NEC when 120 was supposed to be the speed limit. www.american-rails.com/e60.htmlThe AEM-7 was the workhorse. It was a fine piece of equipment, but of course they can't run forever. At the point they were overhauled in the late 90s I'm thinking EMD was out of the electric-only market and supposedly Alstom designed the retrofits.
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Post by ironhammer on Nov 16, 2017 1:09:42 GMT -5
Well, Bombardier, Alstom, Siemens and others have cornered the electric locomotives and EMU market, so it would be rather hard for GE to enter that market without significant investment. And if GE is planning to sell off its transportation business, such investment would not be likely anyway. EMD wasn't interested any more. My understanding is that GE basically gave up on electric-only locomotives after the GE E60 debacle. Something about being limited (due to risk of derailing at faster speeds) to 90 MPH on the NEC when 120 was supposed to be the speed limit. www.american-rails.com/e60.htmlThe AEM-7 was the workhorse. It was a fine piece of equipment, but of course they can't run forever. At the point they were overhauled in the late 90s I'm thinking EMD was out of the electric-only market and supposedly Alstom designed the retrofits. I'll be surprised if they were interested. EMD and GE were earning more than enough from diesel-electric locos, why spend extra money developing an electric locomotive that is only for a small specific market? They would not be able to justify the low return on investment and the high cost of development. Besides, the foreign manufacturers I mentioned above have already an in-built advantage with electric locomotives and EMUs.
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Post by Mocha on Jan 22, 2018 19:26:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 19:28:48 GMT -5
"Subscribe to the FT to read: Financial Times 'Who is responsible for the mess at GE?'"
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Post by BearClause on Jan 22, 2018 20:11:47 GMT -5
"Subscribe to the FT to read: Financial Times 'Who is responsible for the mess at GE?'" Cut and paste the link into Google and search. For whatever reason, a lot of news sites allow a bypass of the paywall if it senses it came from a search engine. The secondary title is "A break-up is thinkable, but it may not be sensible".
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