moody
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Post by moody on Feb 14, 2018 12:14:00 GMT -5
FYI Last years AAU's 18 open put the top 12 teams in the top two pools so if a team decided to rest players during pool play they would certainly risk losing.
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Post by dgo on Feb 14, 2018 12:16:08 GMT -5
Moody....you just don't get it; or choose not to get it. If you want to call this 18's age group a "legitimate" National Championship to make it sound good to yourself then by all means go for it! If entering without qualifying for squat, changing rosters at will and top club players choosing not to play makes this tournament legitimate in your eyes then that's all that should really matter to you! and if not calling it a National Championship because the top two pools were power pools, because some teams had injured players or changed their rosters makes you feel better good for you. To say these top teams can't compete in USJO's is simply ignorant. Honest question: has anybody in this thread said that? I don't recall seeing it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 12:19:37 GMT -5
I’m not sure what you are trying to do here. But Top Select absolutely was missing their best player Samedy. If you are making a reference to her not winning Big10 FOY or that this isn’t an exact award then horray for you. It was not a literal refemce to an actual award but simply to identify a great player on a great team was not playing at AAU 2017. Bottom line is ... she wasn’t there and didn’t play! Top Select was missing Stephanie Samedy, but Samedy was not the B1G Freshman of the Year. Dana Rettke was. I don't know why you chose to lie when you could've said that Top Select was missing a player that became a First-Team All-American, which would've spoken more to her abilities than falsely claiming she was B1G FOY.
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moody
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Post by moody on Feb 14, 2018 12:20:10 GMT -5
and if not calling it a National Championship because the top two pools were power pools, because some teams had injured players or changed their rosters makes you feel better good for you. To say these top teams can't compete in USJO's is simply ignorant. Honest question: has anybody in this thread said that? I don't recall seeing it. From the dman.......Feb 11, 2018 at 6:52pm wonderball likes this Quote like Post Options Post by dman on Feb 11, 2018 at 6:52pm AAU Nationals for 18's is a joke! Many top teams don't come with their true team roster as many girls have already left for college. You will also find clubs poaching other girls to place on their rosters who haven't played for their team all year. It's ridiculous! I know this will ruffle feathers but USAV Nationals is much more competitive top to bottom and the winner of this tournament deserves the title National Champion!
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Post by dgo on Feb 14, 2018 12:20:38 GMT -5
FYI Last years AAU's 18 open put the top 12 teams in the top two pools so if a team decided to rest players during pool play they would certainly risk losing. That is absolutely true. The issue that some have with power pools isn't so much that there isn't a risk of losing -- obviously there is since all the top teams are in those pools -- but that there isn't much consequence to losing. At AAU both teams that finished in sixth place in the power pools (going 0-5) won their challenge matches afterward. Personally, I think that AAU is a perfectly good tournament, although structured differently. The competition in the first couple days can be extremely good because the top teams are pooled together, but some of the pressure is taken off because the teams won't be eliminated from the hunt if they play poorly in their opening pools.
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moody
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Post by moody on Feb 14, 2018 12:21:19 GMT -5
I’m not sure what you are trying to do here. But Top Select absolutely was missing their best player Samedy. If you are making a reference to her not winning Big10 FOY or that this isn’t an exact award then horray for you. It was not a literal refemce to an actual award but simply to identify a great player on a great team was not playing at AAU 2017. Bottom line is ... she wasn’t there and didn’t play! Top Select was missing Stephanie Samedy, but Samedy was not the B1G Freshman of the Year. Dana Rettke was. I don't know why you chose to lie when you could've said that Top Select was missing a player that became a First-Team All-American, which would've spoken more to her abilities than falsely claiming she was B1G FOY. The Professor also lied about the Munciana team. He seems to do that a lot.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Feb 14, 2018 12:21:34 GMT -5
I’m not sure what you are trying to do here. But Top Select absolutely was missing their best player Samedy. If you are making a reference to her not winning Big10 FOY or that this isn’t an exact award then horray for you. It was not a literal refemce to an actual award but simply to identify a great player on a great team was not playing at AAU 2017. Bottom line is ... she wasn’t there and didn’t play! SO, AAU certainly can't be a legitimate National Championship tournament since Samedy wasn't able to play. I never said that. You called me a liar because I gave some examples that boh asked for. There are tons more for 18 Open. I actually begged for the narrative to not go this way and it had nothing to do with your original argument. You can have that argument with yourself.
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Post by dman on Feb 14, 2018 12:22:46 GMT -5
The fact of the matter is at this age group if you win it with a totally different team than you have had all year HOW is that legitimate? You seem to be very hung up on these "power pools" (whatever that is). I can only speak for USAV, which I am familiar with. At Nationals, pretty much EVERY pool is a power pool from Day 1 and you absolutely could never rest players without real consideration of losing the match. Are there talented teams that play in AAU that can compete at USAV? YES! There are too many variables that AAU allows that USAV does not that makes trying to compare the two moot. you are starting your argument with a false statement. No one had and entirely different roster. You don't know how the tournament was structured yet you don't let that get in the way of you "expert" opinion. Now that's talking out your a$$ Let's take Samedy as an example. If I take her off my team (I know moody, it's just ONE person) does that not change my entire team makeup? When were these two "power pools" made? Was it like that from Day 1...Day 3...just asking. Also, try hard to have a civil conversation instead of quickly throwing out insulting statements...it will make you come across a little more mature and intelligent.
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moody
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Post by moody on Feb 14, 2018 12:23:01 GMT -5
FYI Last years AAU's 18 open put the top 12 teams in the top two pools so if a team decided to rest players during pool play they would certainly risk losing. That is absolutely true. The issue that some have with power pools isn't so much that there isn't a risk of losing -- obviously there is since all the top teams are in those pools -- but that there isn't much consequence to loosing. At AAU both teams that finished in sixth place in the power pools (going 0-5) won their challenge matches afterward. Personally, I think that AAU is a perfectly good tournament, although structured differently. The competition in the first couple days can be extremely good because the top teams are pooled together, but some of the pressure is taken off because the teams won't be eliminated from the hunt if they play poorly in their opening pools. I agree it does take some of the pressure off the first few days but there is still an importance in seeding. I think it's a good alternative if there is no qualifying criteria.
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Post by dgo on Feb 14, 2018 12:23:56 GMT -5
Honest question: has anybody in this thread said that? I don't recall seeing it. From the dman.......Feb 11, 2018 at 6:52pm wonderball likes this Quote like Post Options Post by dman on Feb 11, 2018 at 6:52pm AAU Nationals for 18's is a joke! Many top teams don't come with their true team roster as many girls have already left for college. You will also find clubs poaching other girls to place on their rosters who haven't played for their team all year. It's ridiculous! I know this will ruffle feathers but USAV Nationals is much more competitive top to bottom and the winner of this tournament deserves the title National Champion! Thanks for answering. Although I don't think the language you quoted even remotely supports your claim that someone said that the top teams at AAU couldn't compete at USVA GJNC. This is a critique of the flexibility with rosters (which I don't personally agree with) and a claim that USAV is stronger top to bottom (which I absolutely agree with). Nothing in what you quoted suggests that dman thinks the top teams wouldn't be competitive at USAV GJNC. Maybe he/she does think that, but it's not in that quote.
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moody
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Post by moody on Feb 14, 2018 12:23:59 GMT -5
SO, AAU certainly can't be a legitimate National Championship tournament since Samedy wasn't able to play. I never said that. You called me a liar because I gave some examples that boh asked for. There are tons more for 18 Open. I actually begged for the narrative to not go this way and it had nothing to do with your original argument. You can have that argument with yourself. I called you a liar because the examples you gave were a lie.
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moody
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Posts: 18,679
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Post by moody on Feb 14, 2018 12:25:49 GMT -5
From the dman.......Feb 11, 2018 at 6:52pm wonderball likes this Quote like Post Options Post by dman on Feb 11, 2018 at 6:52pm AAU Nationals for 18's is a joke! Many top teams don't come with their true team roster as many girls have already left for college. You will also find clubs poaching other girls to place on their rosters who haven't played for their team all year. It's ridiculous! I know this will ruffle feathers but USAV Nationals is much more competitive top to bottom and the winner of this tournament deserves the title National Champion! Thanks for answering. Although I don't think the language you quoted even remotely supports your claim that someone said that the top teams at AAU couldn't compete at USVA GJNC. This is a critique of the flexibility with rosters (which I don't personally agree with) and a claim that USAV is stronger top to bottom (which I absolutely agree with). Nothing in what you quoted suggests that dman thinks the top teams wouldn't be competitive at USAV GJNC. Maybe he/she does think that, but it's not in that quote. sorry, can't help you with your reading comprehension.
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Post by dgo on Feb 14, 2018 12:28:45 GMT -5
That is absolutely true. The issue that some have with power pools isn't so much that there isn't a risk of losing -- obviously there is since all the top teams are in those pools -- but that there isn't much consequence to loosing. At AAU both teams that finished in sixth place in the power pools (going 0-5) won their challenge matches afterward. Personally, I think that AAU is a perfectly good tournament, although structured differently. The competition in the first couple days can be extremely good because the top teams are pooled together, but some of the pressure is taken off because the teams won't be eliminated from the hunt if they play poorly in their opening pools. I agree it does take some of the pressure off the first few days but there is still an importance in seeding. I think it's a good alternative if there is no qualifying criteria. I don't disagree. As I've said, I don't have a problem with the tournament. I don't have a problem the roster flexibility, and a team that wins AAU -- even with some free agents -- is an elite team. Some years, the best team wins AAU. Some years, the best team wins GJNC. Some years, the best team wins both.
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moody
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Post by moody on Feb 14, 2018 12:29:12 GMT -5
you are starting your argument with a false statement. No one had and entirely different roster. You don't know how the tournament was structured yet you don't let that get in the way of you "expert" opinion. Now that's talking out your a$$ Let's take Samedy as an example. If I take her off my team (I know moody, it's just ONE person) does that not change my entire team makeup? When were these two "power pools" made? Was it like that from Day 1...Day 3...just asking. Also, try hard to have a civil conversation instead of quickly throwing out insulting statements...it will make you come across a little more mature and intelligent. Of course losing a player to an injury like Samedy changes Top Select but that happens in ALL National Championships. That doesn't change the integrity of the tournament. And the pools were made when the tournament was seeded.
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Post by dgo on Feb 14, 2018 12:30:57 GMT -5
Thanks for answering. Although I don't think the language you quoted even remotely supports your claim that someone said that the top teams at AAU couldn't compete at USVA GJNC. This is a critique of the flexibility with rosters (which I don't personally agree with) and a claim that USAV is stronger top to bottom (which I absolutely agree with). Nothing in what you quoted suggests that dman thinks the top teams wouldn't be competitive at USAV GJNC. Maybe he/she does think that, but it's not in that quote. sorry, can't help you with your reading comprehension. My reading comprehension is fine. It doesn't say what you said it says. I'll refrain from calling you a liar, however.
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