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Post by Wolfgang on May 21, 2019 17:00:32 GMT -5
If a kid drops out of college, they'll almost always bring up a number of notable college dropouts who did well, e.g., Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, John Lennon, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Steve Jobs. The problem is, those were exceptional people. You can't compare yourself to Bill Gates or John Lennon. They were very smart to begin with, had some good ideas, had talent, work ethic (probably), and powerful motivations. Not everyone who drops out is going to be the next Bill Gates or John Lennon. LOL! More likely, they'll start off in retail or fail at some start-up, so end up in retail, then another job, get married, mired in debt, and maybe find a good job as a lawn mower technician at a lawn mower manufacturing plant, and then climb up the ladder to be supervisor for that same company. That's pretty much the most likely "good case" scenario. Many of "the trades" are hurting for people -- electricians, plumbers, mechanics, carpenters, etc. A lot of those jobs hire folks for more money than many college grads get. The overall compensation packages are often different (e.g. for many of them you get paid if you work and you don't get paid vacation or sick time, so you have to factor that into your salary), but these "blue collar" jobs can often pay more overall than many "white collar" jobs. And you certainly save a lot on college expenses if you don't go to college. On the other hand, education is often about more than just job earning potential. I'll generally agree but all those trades you listed -- electricians, plumbers, mechanics (??), carpenters -- don't hire at high wages. The young kids get hired to "assist" seasoned pros and do the grunt work and learn on the job. They don't even get a salary. I think they get paid by the hour and it's not that high. They have to also put in a certain number of workhours plus take training/certification classes. This could take years. By the time they're ready to be full-fledged tradesman, they still have to decide whether to get a job working for the likes of Roto-Rooter, Home Depot, or Joe's HVAC Repair, Inc., or open up their own handyman business. Many of them make a lot of money but that's only after years of training and "learning the ropes of the business." There are many trades where you're not even allowed to do certain tasks, e.g., touch power lines, unless you've undergone the proper training and gotten certified at a certain level. The only profession I'm not sure about are auto mechanics. I don't think they get paid as much as you think. I'm also not sure about certification requirements and the like. I'm sure they have them but not sure what they entail. There are some jobs where you can get all the basic requirements done in community college, see, e.g., accounting. The next problem is, you have to get hired and get your employer to agree to sign off on CPA hours so that you can accumulate enough workhours to take the CPA exam, which may come 5 years after you started work as an accountant.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 21, 2019 17:12:14 GMT -5
work.chron.com/apprentice-electricians-salary-6135.htmlNotice that according to this article, beginning electrician apprentices make anything from $13/hr to $30/hr depending on whether they are apprenticing to be residential "wiremen" or outdoor "linemen". Apprenticeship can last up to about four years, and wages increase during that time.
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Post by Wolfgang on May 21, 2019 17:39:18 GMT -5
work.chron.com/apprentice-electricians-salary-6135.htmlNotice that according to this article, beginning electrician apprentices make anything from $13/hr to $30/hr depending on whether they are apprenticing to be residential "wiremen" or outdoor "linemen". Apprenticeship can last up to about four years, and wages increase during that time. Yeah, that's wrong. First, Chron is just Houston so I don't know how representative that is of all of America. Second, there have been problems with these types of "articles" esp. wrt reporting methodologies. Not everyone reports. Only those with something positive to report will report. Third, if you talk to any tradesman, as I have all the time because I do a lot of house/property work, you'll find some kernel of truth that's not found in those articles. For example, the hiring of immigrants and paying them less than fed minimum wage (to save on costs) which means they're also less likely to hire legitimate apprentices. Many of the immigrants are also highly skilled and will take less than market rate, for various reasons. See, e.g., the tons of Hispanic (and sometimes Asian) workers in construction and yard work. The last time I had a contractor was an electrician who came to replace our fuse panel. He was a white guy with his own electrical repair business. He walked in with two Hispanic workers, who did great work. And yes, they're undocumented. I'm not making any commentary about the politics of this whole thing but when it comes to the "blue collar" trades, I don't trust the official numbers that float around out there. Also, it's not just immigrants but other white people. Not all are on the Apprentice track. They get paid, they work, and then they go home. However, I do agree with you thet it can be a good business and you can make a decent amount of money if you go about it the right way and diligently follow a path.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 21, 2019 17:47:52 GMT -5
work.chron.com/apprentice-electricians-salary-6135.htmlNotice that according to this article, beginning electrician apprentices make anything from $13/hr to $30/hr depending on whether they are apprenticing to be residential "wiremen" or outdoor "linemen". Apprenticeship can last up to about four years, and wages increase during that time. Yeah, that's wrong. First, Chron is just Houston so I don't know who representative that is of all of America. Second, there have been problems with these types of "articles" esp. wrt reporting methodologies. Not everyone reports. Only those with something positive to report will report. Third, if you talk to any tradesman, as I have all the time because I do a lot of house/property work, you'll find some kernel of truth that's not found in those articles. For example, the hiring of immigrants and paying them less than fed minimum wage (to save on costs) which means they're also less likely to hire legitimate apprentices. Many of the immigrants are also highly skilled and will take less than market rate, for various reasons. See, e.g., the tons of Hispanic (and sometimes Asian) workers in construction and yard work. The last time I had a contractor was an electrician who came to replace our fuse panel. He was a white guy with his own electrical repair business. He walked in with two Hispanic workers, who did great work. And yes, they're undocumented. I'm not making any commentary about the politics of this whole thing but when it comes to the "blue collar" trades, I don't trust the official numbers that float around out there. Let me just say that a) I actually worked as an undocumented tradesman for a summer (paid in cash under the table), and b) many people in my family, including my brother-in-law, work or worked in the trades. I'm not unaware of these issues. But it's still true that in many places many of the trades are hurting for people and actively recruiting. It's also still true that depending on the specific job you may be able to make way more money (even just starting out) than many college grads. But it's not easy work. As an engineer, I usually work during normal hours, inside a climate controlled office, doing nothing more strenuous than typing. A linesman may find himself climbing a powerline working with live wires carrying deadly voltages during a storm in the middle of the night. They earn their pay. Also, despite being published in the Chron, the article cites wage structures from all over the country.
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Post by Wolfgang on May 21, 2019 18:02:56 GMT -5
I generally agree with #1.
I will take it as a given on #2. You do seem like the climate controlled pampered employee.
I don’t trust the numbers for #3, although I agree with the trends and that the trades are a good profession if someone is willing to hire and train you and send you to classes for certs.
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Post by ilikecorn on May 21, 2019 19:57:41 GMT -5
Who wins? 28-27 Bucks, 1:55 left in the 1st quarter.
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Post by Wolfgang on May 21, 2019 20:07:30 GMT -5
Yeah, that's wrong. First, Chron is just Houston so I don't know who representative that is of all of America. Second, there have been problems with these types of "articles" esp. wrt reporting methodologies. Not everyone reports. Only those with something positive to report will report. Third, if you talk to any tradesman, as I have all the time because I do a lot of house/property work, you'll find some kernel of truth that's not found in those articles. For example, the hiring of immigrants and paying them less than fed minimum wage (to save on costs) which means they're also less likely to hire legitimate apprentices. Many of the immigrants are also highly skilled and will take less than market rate, for various reasons. See, e.g., the tons of Hispanic (and sometimes Asian) workers in construction and yard work. The last time I had a contractor was an electrician who came to replace our fuse panel. He was a white guy with his own electrical repair business. He walked in with two Hispanic workers, who did great work. And yes, they're undocumented. I'm not making any commentary about the politics of this whole thing but when it comes to the "blue collar" trades, I don't trust the official numbers that float around out there. Let me just say that a) I actually worked as an undocumented tradesman for a summer (paid in cash under the table).... I don't want to go into it in great detail right now in this "NBA Playoffs" thread but I "worked" as an amateur general contractor/handyman in 3 of my 4 years in college in exchange for free rent in San Marino, CA. LOL! (This was in the 1980s.)
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Post by ilikecorn on May 21, 2019 20:07:58 GMT -5
I deleted all my posts because you wrecked it.
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Post by ilikecorn on May 21, 2019 20:09:05 GMT -5
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Post by ilikecorn on May 21, 2019 20:09:42 GMT -5
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Post by ilikecorn on May 21, 2019 20:11:13 GMT -5
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Post by Wolfgang on May 21, 2019 20:12:10 GMT -5
If you are indeed the photographer for all those photos, then:
1. They're awesome photos, man!
2. How did you get them? Are you a pro photographer with a courtside press pass?
3. Hoe did you take the photos from above?
4. I apologize for my criticism of the Minnesota campus photo (I think it was Minnesota). LOL
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Post by ilikecorn on May 21, 2019 20:12:16 GMT -5
LOL
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Post by Wolfgang on May 21, 2019 20:16:07 GMT -5
I don't see the joke.
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Post by ilikecorn on May 21, 2019 20:16:18 GMT -5
Those too doofs are the Lakers GM (right) and their new head coach Frank Vogel.
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