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Post by ajm on Jun 1, 2018 14:08:06 GMT -5
David Lee is a far more accomplished indoor middle blocker and he couldn’t make it out of the qualifier. Although today’s rules do give advantages to taller players. Makes me wonder what a guy like Leland Quinn could have done in the 90s if he played under today’s rules. If David Lee had been playing with Andrei Belov he would have won the match he lost 14 and 12. Guys like Quinn, Mattarocci, and even better players like Timmons and Powers would have been very interesting under these rules/court Point is there’s more to blocking than just height. I’d say Lee has more upside on the beach than Ratajczak even though he’s 6 inches shorter and 5 years older.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 1, 2018 14:19:13 GMT -5
If David Lee had been playing with Andrei Belov he would have won the match he lost 14 and 12. Guys like Quinn, Mattarocci, and even better players like Timmons and Powers would have been very interesting under these rules/court Point is there’s more to blocking than just height. I’d say Lee has more upside on the beach than Ratajczak even though he’s 6 inches shorter and 5 years older. While Lee may be a better MB, doesn't mean that transfers to the beach. Lotman has played the highest levels of indoor, and that hasn't transferred to the beach, Rooney too. For all we know, the new kid has a decent all around game...
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Post by ajm on Jun 1, 2018 14:35:57 GMT -5
Point is there’s more to blocking than just height. I’d say Lee has more upside on the beach than Ratajczak even though he’s 6 inches shorter and 5 years older. While Lee may be a better MB, doesn't mean that transfers to the beach. Lotman has played the highest levels of indoor, and that hasn't transferred to the beach, Rooney too. For all we know, the new kid has a decent all around game... Completely agree. None of those guys are likely to be as successful on the beach as Doherty is.
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Post by 405LAX on Jun 1, 2018 14:56:28 GMT -5
Point is there’s more to blocking than just height. I’d say Lee has more upside on the beach than Ratajczak even though he’s 6 inches shorter and 5 years older. While Lee may be a better MB, doesn't mean that transfers to the beach. Lotman has played the highest levels of indoor, and that hasn't transferred to the beach, Rooney too. For all we know, the new kid has a decent all around game... Lotman just hasn't gotten to that next level, his attitude is really bad too, never smiles, looks sullen, can't imagine that helps with partners.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 1, 2018 15:00:35 GMT -5
Point is there’s more to blocking than just height. I’d say Lee has more upside on the beach than Ratajczak even though he’s 6 inches shorter and 5 years older. While Lee may be a better MB, doesn't mean that transfers to the beach. Lotman has played the highest levels of indoor, and that hasn't transferred to the beach, Rooney too. For all we know, the new kid has a decent all around game... Definitely something to what you say about not transferring but I think most top indoor guys, if they are prepared to commit two years to grinding, practicing full time etc. will make the transition and succeed. I don't know much about Lotman, but had Rooney really committed himself and gotten good injury luck for a couple years, I think he would have 20-30 AVP wins and at least half a dozen FIVBs by now. I agree there is more to blocking than height and I think thats one reason Doherty is such a poor blocker for his height. If you could give him Sean Scott or Jake Gibb's blocking skills, Ryan would be one of the top 2-3 blockers in the world
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Post by 405LAX on Jun 1, 2018 15:03:12 GMT -5
Kinda surprised a guy like Lorenz didn't make a call to someone like Del Sol, that's a decent team with qualification capabilities.
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Post by Semp12 on Jun 1, 2018 15:21:31 GMT -5
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Post by chicory on Jun 1, 2018 16:05:25 GMT -5
Easy win.
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Post by ajm on Jun 1, 2018 17:05:00 GMT -5
While Lee may be a better MB, doesn't mean that transfers to the beach. Lotman has played the highest levels of indoor, and that hasn't transferred to the beach, Rooney too. For all we know, the new kid has a decent all around game... Definitely something to what you say about not transferring but I think most top indoor guys, if they are prepared to commit two years to grinding, practicing full time etc. will make the transition and succeed. I don't know much about Lotman, but had Rooney really committed himself and gotten good injury luck for a couple years, I think he would have 20-30 AVP wins and at least half a dozen FIVBs by now. Sometimes I wonder whether all the indoor wear and tear eventually catches up with guys who switch to the beach later in their careers. I know there are some successes such as Nygaard and Hyden, but many more that couldn't seem to stay healthy such as the guys you mentioned, Roumain, Lambert, etc.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 1, 2018 17:41:02 GMT -5
Those are some awful finishes. Not making the playoffs in an event where Jon Rose (RIP pal) finished 3rd is pretty bad and Levent is not Karch but definitely good enough to do fine in events like that.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 1, 2018 17:44:59 GMT -5
Definitely something to what you say about not transferring but I think most top indoor guys, if they are prepared to commit two years to grinding, practicing full time etc. will make the transition and succeed. I don't know much about Lotman, but had Rooney really committed himself and gotten good injury luck for a couple years, I think he would have 20-30 AVP wins and at least half a dozen FIVBs by now. Sometimes I wonder whether all the indoor wear and tear eventually catches up with guys who switch to the beach later in their careers. I know there are some successes such as Nygaard and Hyden, but many more that couldn't seem to stay healthy such as the guys you mentioned, Roumain, Lambert, etc. I always wished Lambert/Phil would have tried a few tournies together. I remembered Lambo as being a top player for around a decade but when I checked it was just 4 good years before the injury.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 1, 2018 19:22:56 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder whether all the indoor wear and tear eventually catches up with guys who switch to the beach later in their careers. I know there are some successes such as Nygaard and Hyden, but many more that couldn't seem to stay healthy such as the guys you mentioned, Roumain, Lambert, etc. I always wished Lambert/Phil would have tried a few tournies together. I remembered Lambo as being a top player for around a decade but when I checked it was just 4 good years before the injury. Lambo was on his way towards that decade....what could have been...
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Post by ajm on Jun 1, 2018 21:14:04 GMT -5
I always wished Lambert/Phil would have tried a few tournies together. I remembered Lambo as being a top player for around a decade but when I checked it was just 4 good years before the injury. Lambo was on his way towards that decade....what could have been... It occurred to me that Phil only played a few years of club indoor and Jake didn’t play indoor at all. And they have both had long and relatively injury-free beach careers.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 1, 2018 21:45:24 GMT -5
Lambo was on his way towards that decade....what could have been... It occurred to me that Phil only played a few years of club indoor and Jake didn’t play indoor at all. And they have both had long and relatively injury-free beach careers. Not sure I would call Phil's career injury free, it seems like he has a ton of ab and back strains, etc. but I guess nothing really major. I'd love to see some extensive research on this topic. It does seem like there are a lot of guys who played heavy indoor who broke down pretty quickly, but there are also guys like Karch, Hyden, Dodd, Luyties, Casey, EY etc. who played a good deal of indoor first and then had long careers. Reid is out there at 48 years old and his body seems to be holding up. I was trying to think of non-indoor guys who didnt last that long or had major injuries. There aren't that many non-indoor players that are really good to start with. Jose springs to mind. He played a long time, but that injury drew a bright line between his days as a top guy in the world and just another player. A couple other men and women had some big issues but it seems like shoulder stuff is more common. Interesting topic, I'd love to know more about it, but its hard to find info since bvb is such a small sport
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Post by ajm on Jun 1, 2018 23:20:15 GMT -5
It occurred to me that Phil only played a few years of club indoor and Jake didn’t play indoor at all. And they have both had long and relatively injury-free beach careers. Not sure I would call Phil's career injury free, it seems like he has a ton of ab and back strains, etc. but I guess nothing really major. I'd love to see some extensive research on this topic. It does seem like there are a lot of guys who played heavy indoor who broke down pretty quickly, but there are also guys like Karch, Hyden, Dodd, Luyties, Casey, EY etc. who played a good deal of indoor first and then had long careers. Reid is out there at 48 years old and his body seems to be holding up. I was trying to think of non-indoor guys who didnt last that long or had major injuries. There aren't that many non-indoor players that are really good to start with. Jose springs to mind. He played a long time, but that injury drew a bright line between his days as a top guy in the world and just another player. A couple other men and women had some big issues but it seems like shoulder stuff is more common. Interesting topic, I'd love to know more about it, but its hard to find info since bvb is such a small sport It also seems like most of the indoor guys who played beach at a high level into their late 30s or 40s were or eventually became full time defenders. Maybe that’s why Jake and Phil stand out from the others. Not trying to say there’s a hard and fast rule or anything, it’s just a pattern I’ve noticed. There always are exceptions. Reid’s case is particularly amazing because he tore his ACL only a few years ago at an age where most indoor careers are long over. Maybe advances in medicine and training will allow more indoor guys to transition to the beach successfully later in their careers.
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