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Post by swift on Aug 21, 2018 3:57:18 GMT -5
Phil in his prime was an absolute beast. We will prolly not see a player like him in our lifetime. maybe we're seeing one right now with Mol!? Lately he has been just as dominant at the net as Phil used to be, Mol also has great hands (his sets are smooth as butter!), he's got a good jump serve and his side out game is strong too. He's also super dynamic for his size. I think he has to get a bit more consistent and work on his court vision and passing but I'm pretty sure he'll get there... remember he's only 21 or 22. What you have to consider is, that when Phil hit the scene players were not used to play against a blocker/hitter like him. Nowadays there are a lot of tall players on the FIVB tour so hitters have become more used to playing against a big block and there are more guys that play literally on the same level as Phil. You can clearly see that Phil is not getting as many blocks anymore as he used to and he even gets blocked himself every now and then. Phil was a one of a kind player 10 years ago but he's not anymore. This being said, these new young players have to prove themselves first of course.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 21, 2018 4:07:07 GMT -5
Phil in his prime was an absolute beast. We will prolly not see a player like him in our lifetime. maybe we're seeing one right now with Mol!? Lately he has been just as dominant at the net as Phil used to be, Mol also has great hands (his sets are smooth as butter!), he's got a good jump serve and his side out game is strong too. He's also super dynamic for his size. I think he has to get a bit more consistent and work on his court vision and passing but I'm pretty sure he'll get there... remember he's only 21 or 22. What you have to consider is, that when Phil hit the scene players were not used to play against a blocker/hitter like him. Nowadays there are a lot of tall players on the FIVB tour so hitters have become more used to playing against a big block and there are more guys that play literally on the same level as Phil. You can clearly see that Phil is not getting as many blocks anymore as he used to and he even gets blocked himself every now and then. Phil was a one of a kind player 10 years ago but he's not anymore. This being said, these new young players have to prove themselves first of course. Phil is still one of a kind when he bothers to try. His net presence, offense and setting are all better than pretty much anyone else. Last year he was the number 1 team playing with a non-top 10 defender. Other than Norway all the players are the same this year and they didnt catch up to Phil in the last six months, he just got a little older and doesn't care. Imagine any other player with Nick and that team gets murdered. Even Evandro, my vote for best player in the world on the 350 days when Phil doesn't care, couldn't win with Nick. No one could, but Phil does and has.
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wisco
Sophomore
Posts: 247
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Post by wisco on Aug 21, 2018 13:57:44 GMT -5
Phil in his prime was an absolute beast. We will prolly not see a player like him in our lifetime. maybe we're seeing one right now with Mol!? Lately he has been just as dominant at the net as Phil used to be, Mol also has great hands (his sets are smooth as butter!), he's got a good jump serve and his side out game is strong too. He's also super dynamic for his size. I think he has to get a bit more consistent and work on his court vision and passing but I'm pretty sure he'll get there... remember he's only 21 or 22. What you have to consider is, that when Phil hit the scene players were not used to play against a blocker/hitter like him. Nowadays there are a lot of tall players on the FIVB tour so hitters have become more used to playing against a big block and there are more guys that play literally on the same level as Phil. You can clearly see that Phil is not getting as many blocks anymore as he used to and he even gets blocked himself every now and then. Phil was a one of a kind player 10 years ago but he's not anymore. This being said, these new young players have to prove themselves first of course. Granted we don't see it as much as we used to with Phil (nice to see him take over in the finals this weekend at MBO). Phil is a once in lifetime player and nobody today even is close to Phil. Sure some guys can do some of the things he can (Evandro's serve, Alison's/Mol's Block), but nobody has every come close to being as all around great as him. I really think he is the perfect beach volleyball player with few/no weaknesses. I think he is the GOAT. Since 2005 he has won on the FIVB Best Blocker 7x Best Hitter 4x Best Offensive Player 5x Best Server 1x Best Setter 7x Most Improved 1x Most Outstanding 4x Sportsperson 1x Team of the year 1x
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Post by rainmaker on Aug 21, 2018 14:10:28 GMT -5
wisco I am with you.. saw all the older guys back in the day.. The best blocker/setter thing kills me, for a while, no one even was remotely close..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 15:35:27 GMT -5
i would have said the same thing a few months ago, but mol is only 21 and extremely good at every skill. i don't see as being on a whole other level from him. main thing phil has is consistency over the years
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Post by tafit on Aug 22, 2018 5:52:47 GMT -5
maybe we're seeing one right now with Mol!? Lately he has been just as dominant at the net as Phil used to be, Mol also has great hands (his sets are smooth as butter!), he's got a good jump serve and his side out game is strong too. He's also super dynamic for his size. I think he has to get a bit more consistent and work on his court vision and passing but I'm pretty sure he'll get there... remember he's only 21 or 22. What you have to consider is, that when Phil hit the scene players were not used to play against a blocker/hitter like him. Nowadays there are a lot of tall players on the FIVB tour so hitters have become more used to playing against a big block and there are more guys that play literally on the same level as Phil. You can clearly see that Phil is not getting as many blocks anymore as he used to and he even gets blocked himself every now and then. Phil was a one of a kind player 10 years ago but he's not anymore. This being said, these new young players have to prove themselves first of course. Phil is still one of a kind when he bothers to try. His net presence, offense and setting are all better than pretty much anyone else. Last year he was the number 1 team playing with a non-top 10 defender. Other than Norway all the players are the same this year and they didnt catch up to Phil in the last six months, he just got a little older and doesn't care. Imagine any other player with Nick and that team gets murdered. Even Evandro, my vote for best player in the world on the 350 days when Phil doesn't care, couldn't win with Nick. No one could, but Phil does and has. Phil not caring is a myth told by his fans that have difficulties accepting his losses and the fact that he is not as dominant anymore. Maybe it is true some times, but usually he does care, after barely winning the MBO you could tell he was extremely happy. Mol is certainly better than the actual Phil and maybe one day he will be better than the best Phil, who knows. It's just normal that following generations surpass the previous ones, sports as most fields evolve, professionalism increases, training methods improve, athletes pay more attention to nutrition, get better medical treatments... Jesse Owens wouldn't qualify for today's Olympics anymore (though I agree, Phil is not Jesse's age ). And that's why probably LBJ is better than MJ, which for me is painful to say...
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 22, 2018 6:56:34 GMT -5
Phil is still one of a kind when he bothers to try. His net presence, offense and setting are all better than pretty much anyone else. Last year he was the number 1 team playing with a non-top 10 defender. Other than Norway all the players are the same this year and they didnt catch up to Phil in the last six months, he just got a little older and doesn't care. Imagine any other player with Nick and that team gets murdered. Even Evandro, my vote for best player in the world on the 350 days when Phil doesn't care, couldn't win with Nick. No one could, but Phil does and has. Phil not caring is a myth told by his fans that have difficulties accepting his losses and the fact that he is not as dominant anymore. Maybe it is true some times, but usually he does care, after barely winning the MBO you could tell he was extremely happy. Mol is certainly better than the actual Phil and maybe one day he will be better than the best Phil, who knows. It's just normal that following generations surpass the previous ones, sports as most fields evolve, professionalism increases, training methods improve, athletes pay more attention to nutrition, get better medical treatments... Jesse Owens wouldn't qualify for today's Olympics anymore (though I agree, Phil is not Jesse's age ). And that's why probably LBJ is better than MJ, which for me is painful to say... Mol is NOT certainly better than Phil, Mol AND his partner are really hot right now, but lets see now that they are the hunted. 2 years ago, Allison was better than Phil, not currently. Teams find holes.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 22, 2018 7:37:47 GMT -5
Phil not caring is a myth told by his fans that have difficulties accepting his losses and the fact that he is not as dominant anymore. Maybe it is true some times, but usually he does care, after barely winning the MBO you could tell he was extremely happy. Mol is certainly better than the actual Phil and maybe one day he will be better than the best Phil, who knows. It's just normal that following generations surpass the previous ones, sports as most fields evolve, professionalism increases, training methods improve, athletes pay more attention to nutrition, get better medical treatments... Jesse Owens wouldn't qualify for today's Olympics anymore (though I agree, Phil is not Jesse's age ). And that's why probably LBJ is better than MJ, which for me is painful to say... Mol is NOT certainly better than Phil, Mol AND his partner are really hot right now, but lets see now that they are the hunted. 2 years ago, Allison was better than Phil, not currently. Teams find holes. There was an argument for Bruno but never Allison. BTW there is some very interesting research that essentially says that yes, Jesse Owens would have made the Olympics on a modern composite track There is a decent argument the Norwegian kid is better than Phil but there is not a decent argument that Phil usually gives 100%. There just isn't. If you watch a decent sampling of his matches there is no way to come to that conclusion, in particular because the teams he is losing to or struggling against are not new up and comers, they are the same teams he and Nick were whipping previously and are often low seeds
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Post by tafit on Aug 22, 2018 7:47:08 GMT -5
Mol is NOT certainly better than Phil, Mol AND his partner are really hot right now, but lets see now that they are the hunted. 2 years ago, Allison was better than Phil, not currently. Teams find holes. There was an argument for Bruno but never Allison. BTW there is some very interesting research that essentially says that yes, Jesse Owens would have made the Olympics on a modern composite track There is a decent argument the Norwegian kid is better than Phil but there is not a decent argument that Phil usually gives 100%. There just isn't. If you watch a decent sampling of his matches there is no way to come to that conclusion, in particular because the teams he is losing to or struggling against are not new up and comers, they are the same teams he and Nick were whipping previously and are often low seeds If Taylor didn't mis-hit the ball that would have given them the title I am pretty sure we would read in this forum posts claiming Phil wasn't really motivated, when his celebrations clearly showed that he really cared about this win.
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wisco
Sophomore
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Post by wisco on Aug 22, 2018 7:56:24 GMT -5
There was an argument for Bruno but never Allison. BTW there is some very interesting research that essentially says that yes, Jesse Owens would have made the Olympics on a modern composite track There is a decent argument the Norwegian kid is better than Phil but there is not a decent argument that Phil usually gives 100%. There just isn't. If you watch a decent sampling of his matches there is no way to come to that conclusion, in particular because the teams he is losing to or struggling against are not new up and comers, they are the same teams he and Nick were whipping previously and are often low seeds If Taylor didn't mis-hit the ball that would have given them the title I am pretty sure we would read in this forum posts claiming Phil wasn't really motivated, when his celebrations clearly showed that he really cared about this win. I agree a lot of this seems to be knee-jerk reactions. Which is why I was trying to point out Phils 10+ year run as top 3 if not the top player in the game. Which is why comparing the Norwegian kid on a real hot streak to Phil is ludicrous. I feel like a lot of people 5 years ago said that Evandro was going to take over beach volleyball, and while he is one hell of a player he has and never will get to Phil's level. Phil is a complete player and one of the G.O.A.T's. Now if Mol does this for the next 10 years and win's an Olympic gold then you can compare him.
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Post by tafit on Aug 22, 2018 8:23:59 GMT -5
If Taylor didn't mis-hit the ball that would have given them the title I am pretty sure we would read in this forum posts claiming Phil wasn't really motivated, when his celebrations clearly showed that he really cared about this win. I agree a lot of this seems to be knee-jerk reactions. Which is why I was trying to point out Phils 10+ year run as top 3 if not the top player in the game. Which is why comparing the Norwegian kid on a real hot streak to Phil is ludicrous. I feel like a lot of people 5 years ago said that Evandro was going to take over beach volleyball, and while he is one hell of a player he has and never will get to Phil's level. Phil is a complete player and one of the G.O.A.T's. Now if Mol does this for the next 10 years and win's an Olympic gold then you can compare him. I agree Phil is one of the GOAT and Mol still has a long way to go before his career can possibly be compared to Phil's, but lately he is in great form and the best player on tour. Of course this could change next year, we don't know.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 22, 2018 10:54:01 GMT -5
If Taylor didn't mis-hit the ball that would have given them the title I am pretty sure we would read in this forum posts claiming Phil wasn't really motivated, when his celebrations clearly showed that he really cared about this win. I agree a lot of this seems to be knee-jerk reactions. Which is why I was trying to point out Phils 10+ year run as top 3 if not the top player in the game. Which is why comparing the Norwegian kid on a real hot streak to Phil is ludicrous. I feel like a lot of people 5 years ago said that Evandro was going to take over beach volleyball, and while he is one hell of a player he has and never will get to Phil's level. Phil is a complete player and one of the G.O.A.T's. Now if Mol does this for the next 10 years and win's an Olympic gold then you can compare him. The Phil is disinterested narrative is hardly a knee jerk reaction, motivation has been an issue for him frequently including at the end of the Todd and Sean partnerships. Also Evandro is a top 3 player in the world right now, and is maybe the best. He has been top 3 for the last 3-4 years and he is 28. (He has more titles at the same age than Phil did) He probably won't get to the level Phil attained, but he is an incredible player and if he weren't such a moron strategically he would be winning 4 + events every year.
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Post by rainmaker on Aug 22, 2018 12:16:00 GMT -5
Love the moron strategically!!! agreed..
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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 22, 2018 13:50:59 GMT -5
There was an argument for Bruno but never Allison. BTW there is some very interesting research that essentially says that yes, Jesse Owens would have made the Olympics on a modern composite track There is a decent argument the Norwegian kid is better than Phil but there is not a decent argument that Phil usually gives 100%. There just isn't. If you watch a decent sampling of his matches there is no way to come to that conclusion, in particular because the teams he is losing to or struggling against are not new up and comers, they are the same teams he and Nick were whipping previously and are often low seeds If Taylor didn't mis-hit the ball that would have given them the title I am pretty sure we would read in this forum posts claiming Phil wasn't really motivated, when his celebrations clearly showed that he really cared about this win. Excellent assessment...Low sample sizes are ALWAYS a poor time to make "overall comments"...One hit and the match goes COMPLETELY a different way....Nice post!
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Post by guest2 on Aug 22, 2018 14:20:22 GMT -5
There was an argument for Bruno but never Allison. BTW there is some very interesting research that essentially says that yes, Jesse Owens would have made the Olympics on a modern composite track There is a decent argument the Norwegian kid is better than Phil but there is not a decent argument that Phil usually gives 100%. There just isn't. If you watch a decent sampling of his matches there is no way to come to that conclusion, in particular because the teams he is losing to or struggling against are not new up and comers, they are the same teams he and Nick were whipping previously and are often low seeds If Taylor didn't mis-hit the ball that would have given them the title I am pretty sure we would read in this forum posts claiming Phil wasn't really motivated, when his celebrations clearly showed that he really cared about this win. I made that point after Phil/Nick won. Phil/Nick turned it on in game 2 but in Game 1 were their typical selves Watch the 8-0 run that won Game 1 for Taylor/Jake. Look at the errors, the bad passes and sets, Phil being out of position multiple times because he wasn't anticipating etc. That team was not ready to play in Game 1 and it showed (or did you miss Nick hitting a cut shot under the net on a good set or any of their other sloppy errors) The small sample size you and Jim seem obsesses with claiming is Phil celebrating once after winning a match that was more difficult than it should have been. Otherwise, for most of the last two years, in his final year with Rosie, and in his final two with Todd, Phil gives 100% about as often as he doesn't and this year its been less than that. Unless of course you think one of the young guns who has overtaken Phil is 64 year old Jake Gibb?
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