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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 9, 2018 18:52:51 GMT -5
And what's the deal with all this "old man" stuff? I'm not THAT old. I have no idea how old you are. It's what you sound like.
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Post by baytree on Dec 9, 2018 19:09:08 GMT -5
Few thoughts: 1) In order to be eligible to host a regional, you need to have a video replay system available. Most schools just re-use the same system they already have in place with DV-Sport that they use for basketball, which utilizes existing TV cameras in the venue. Schools will not spend additional money for high speed cameras specific to volleyball for a non-revenue generating sport - especially if it is not mandated either by the NCAA or their conference for regular season play. As for limiting coach contact with the players during the review, I see absolutely no point in that. Coaches communicate with players between points anyway (and even when play is ongoing). And the coaches talking to the players isn't affecting the amount of time used with the challenge. So no need to make a rule against that, IMO. It seems like coaches sometimes call a challenge as a way of getting an additional time out, without having a real expectation that the point will go to them. If a coach can't talk to her/his players during challenge, it will eliminate "time out" challenges. That's why ppl want to change the rule so that coaches can't talk to players during reviews.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 9, 2018 19:12:09 GMT -5
As for limiting coach contact with the players during the review, I see absolutely no point in that. Coaches communicate with players between points anyway (and even when play is ongoing). And the coaches talking to the players isn't affecting the amount of time used with the challenge. So no need to make a rule against that, IMO. It seems like coaches sometimes call a challenge as a way of getting an additional time out, without having a real expectation that the point will go to them. If a coach can't talk to her/his players during challenge, it will eliminate "time out" challenges. That's why ppl want to change the rule so that coaches can't talk to players during reviews. Just give them fewer challenges but let them keep them if they win. That makes each challenge more valuable, and discourages calling one unless the coach really thinks it will win.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 19:27:41 GMT -5
And I really do not like rewarding players for luck. that means any time a serve hits the net should be a service error. these serves that clip the tape and then creep over are total luck. They aren't being reviewed. Luck is always a part of sport. Spending time (and money) to reward it? Not good. Ditto. Ditto. You are missing my point entirely. Possibly my fault.
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Post by vup on Dec 9, 2018 19:36:09 GMT -5
I personally think the pancake should be illegal. That would solve that problem right there. My rule: if the hand, or foot, is in contact with the floor, it's part of the floor. I really think the sport should not have rules that human beings can't officiate.
Pancakes are one of the most satisfying plays in volleyball. On a successful pancake, the ball never touches the floor. That is the definition of our sport.
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Post by vup on Dec 9, 2018 19:39:24 GMT -5
I'm serious here. Do we REALLY want to know if someone barely touched a ball hit out of bounds or barely touched the net? Why do we want to reward luck?
A touch is a touch. That's the game. Yes, we really want to know what the right call is.
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Post by jayj79 on Dec 9, 2018 19:41:21 GMT -5
As for limiting coach contact with the players during the review, I see absolutely no point in that. Coaches communicate with players between points anyway (and even when play is ongoing). And the coaches talking to the players isn't affecting the amount of time used with the challenge. So no need to make a rule against that, IMO. It seems like coaches sometimes call a challenge as a way of getting an additional time out, without having a real expectation that the point will go to them. If a coach can't talk to her/his players during challenge, it will eliminate "time out" challenges. That's why ppl want to change the rule so that coaches can't talk to players during reviews. timeouts seem to be more about breaking momentum than they are about conveying some key piece of strategy to your players (that is so secretive that it can't be conveyed to your players standing in the middle of the court through hand gestures and/or yelling). Coaches that challenge just for the "extra timeout" would still do it even if they aren't allowed to "talk" to their players during the challenge time. Thus such a rule doesn't really accomplish anything.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 9, 2018 19:43:25 GMT -5
You are missing my point entirely. Possibly my fault. I do not believe you have a point. I do not think a small touch on the block is any more "luck" than a bigger, more obvious touch.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 19:44:51 GMT -5
You are missing my point entirely. Possibly my fault. I do not believe you have a point. I do not think a small touch on the block is any more "luck" than a bigger, more obvious touch. Sure it is. If you pound the ball into a block and it goes out of bounds, that is skill. Even if you break someone's finger, that is skill. You hit their fingernail while hitting it into the stands? You got lucky.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 9, 2018 19:47:07 GMT -5
I do not believe you have a point. I do not think a small touch on the block is any more "luck" than a bigger, more obvious touch. Sure it is. If you pound the ball into a block and it goes out of bounds, that is skill. Even if you break someone's finger, that is skill. You hit their fingernail while hitting it into the stands? You got lucky. You are essentially asking for a judgment call by the refs on whether the ball would have been in except for the touch. Is that really where you want to take this?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 19:47:35 GMT -5
I personally think the pancake should be illegal. That would solve that problem right there. My rule: if the hand, or foot, is in contact with the floor, it's part of the floor. I really think the sport should not have rules that human beings can't officiate. Pancakes are one of the most satisfying plays in volleyball. On a successful pancake, the ball never touches the floor. That is the definition of our sport.
Redefine the sport then. If it can't be reffed, don't allow it. I would argue that it isn't the definition of the sport, btw. It's a cute play -- often a lazy play -- that has become popular because it is perceived as being cool. At the very least, if the ref cannot clearly see that the ball was up, call it down -- and don't review it. Now, the exact opposite seems to be the mindset. I can't tell, so I better not call it down. Challenge! The SSS pancake would be a perfect example -- a play I have not seen on replay. If that ball was down, why was it called up? I want refs to call that play good only if they are sure it was, not because they don't know if it was good or not. Note: I am saying that play should have been called down. If Hugh wants to challenge it, that should be the challenge.
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Post by volleyguy on Dec 9, 2018 19:48:11 GMT -5
Volleyball is being ruined. You may not agree, but that is my answer to you. It already happened to football, baseball and basketball. It's being ruined by GM2, and Karch, and club volleyball parents, not for the reasons you strangely globbed onto.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 19:48:41 GMT -5
Sure it is. If you pound the ball into a block and it goes out of bounds, that is skill. Even if you break someone's finger, that is skill. You hit their fingernail while hitting it into the stands? You got lucky. You are essentially asking for a judgment call by the refs on whether the ball would have been in except for the touch. Is that really where you want to take this? No. Same as the pancake. If you don't clearly see a touch, you call it out. You don't review it to find that micro touch.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 19:49:35 GMT -5
Volleyball is being ruined. You may not agree, but that is my answer to you. It already happened to football, baseball and basketball. It's been no ruined by GM2, and Karch, and club volleyball parents, not for the reasons you strangely globbed onto. I'll file this one for reference at a later date.
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Post by volleyguy on Dec 9, 2018 19:51:31 GMT -5
It's been no being ruined by GM2, and Karch, and club volleyball parents, not for the reasons you strangely globbed onto. I'll file this one for reference at a later date. Challenge! Auto correct came into play. It's been changed.
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