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Post by azvb on Mar 14, 2019 12:26:53 GMT -5
This whole admissions scandal situation is so troubling. Those involved definitely deserve to have heavy consequences. But before I get too high on my horse....... I have a friend that comes from a very wealthy, prominent Arizona Mormon family. There is a wing in prominent building at BYU named after my friends very wealthy mother, let’s call her Jane. Every one of this Jane’s children and grandchildren, that wanted to go BYU, have been accepted to BYU. One was also accepted to a Medical School built on land donated by the grandfather. This was the only school that accepted him. I know Jane’s kids and grandkids. Not all were the sharpest tools in the shed. I asked my friend if she would adopt my kids so they would have her last name when applying. We laugh about it, but it’s reality. I don’t believe money under the table happened, but money over the table certainly did. Was an “agreement” made that Jane’s posterity would be granted admission? Wouldn’t surprise me. And yes, it ticked me off that her son got in and mine didn’t. Neither had stellar grades or SAT scores. Yet, he got in. Did his last name have something to do with it? I have no doubt. This friend has helped me numerous times get tickets to BYU events. GOOD tickets. So, I guess I’m guilty too. Does this family deserve the perks? I’m ready to hear your thoughts. Read more: volleytalk.proboards.com/thread/76788/college-admissions-scandal?page=23#ixzz5iATz5Qrd
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Post by Wolfgang on Mar 14, 2019 12:40:17 GMT -5
If I were to do this, I would set up an endowment or some building fund in my name toward a wing or a building at, let's say, Duke. Also, I would tell the officials that I have three kids who will apply to this school and "wouldn't it be great if they were accepted here?"
Then, I would say I will add $1M to the endowment every year. If, say, I was very unhappy about something *hint*hint*, I would no longer continue to add $1M to the endowment and I will cut all my ties to the school.
Finally, I would say that due to my unhappiness, I will set up an even bigger endowment at a rival school, say UNC.
But I would never do any of this shiite. My kids got into great schools on their own. Yes, with no help from daddy and mommy.
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Post by Wolfgang on Mar 14, 2019 12:48:43 GMT -5
I'm no Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg or Jeff Bezos, but I really really love BOGO (buy one get one free) coupons.
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Post by gnu2vball on Mar 14, 2019 13:01:08 GMT -5
This whole admissions scandal situation is so troubling. Those involved definitely deserve to have heavy consequences. But before I get too high on my horse....... I have a friend that comes from a very wealthy, prominent Arizona Mormon family. There is a wing in prominent building at BYU named after my friends very wealthy mother, let’s call her Jane. Every one of this Jane’s children and grandchildren, that wanted to go BYU, have been accepted to BYU. One was also accepted to a Medical School built on land donated by the grandfather. This was the only school that accepted him. I know Jane’s kids and grandkids. Not all were the sharpest tools in the shed. I asked my friend if she would adopt my kids so they would have her last name when applying. We laugh about it, but it’s reality. I don’t believe money under the table happened, but money over the table certainly did. Was an “agreement” made that Jane’s posterity would be granted admission? Wouldn’t surprise me. And yes, it ticked me off that her son got in and mine didn’t. Neither had stellar grades or SAT scores. Yet, he got in. Did his last name have something to do with it? I have no doubt. This friend has helped me numerous times get tickets to BYU events. GOOD tickets. So, I guess I’m guilty too. Does this family deserve the perks? I’m ready to hear your thoughts. Read more: volleytalk.proboards.com/thread/76788/college-admissions-scandal?page=23#ixzz5iATz5QrdYeah. The family deserves the perks. Sounds to me like despite their good fortune, they've maintained longstanding friendships. Watch out for envy/jealousy. Now if the kids do crime..... that's not a time for perks.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Mar 14, 2019 13:04:19 GMT -5
This whole admissions scandal situation is so troubling. Those involved definitely deserve to have heavy consequences. But before I get too high on my horse....... I have a friend that comes from a very wealthy, prominent Arizona Mormon family. There is a wing in prominent building at BYU named after my friends very wealthy mother, let’s call her Jane. Every one of this Jane’s children and grandchildren, that wanted to go BYU, have been accepted to BYU. One was also accepted to a Medical School built on land donated by the grandfather. This was the only school that accepted him. I know Jane’s kids and grandkids. Not all were the sharpest tools in the shed. I asked my friend if she would adopt my kids so they would have her last name when applying. We laugh about it, but it’s reality. I don’t believe money under the table happened, but money over the table certainly did. Was an “agreement” made that Jane’s posterity would be granted admission? Wouldn’t surprise me. And yes, it ticked me off that her son got in and mine didn’t. Neither had stellar grades or SAT scores. Yet, he got in. Did his last name have something to do with it? I have no doubt. This friend has helped me numerous times get tickets to BYU events. GOOD tickets. So, I guess I’m guilty too. Does this family deserve the perks? I’m ready to hear your thoughts. Read more: volleytalk.proboards.com/thread/76788/college-admissions-scandal?page=23#ixzz5iATz5QrdI don't know about 'deserve perks' - but I really don't have a problem with this. If BYU is good and this family is good (with the donation(s)) - then seems like a reasonable contract.
I assume that T.Boone Pickens has a ton of perks associated with his contributions to Oklahoma State (Every major university has this, I guess). So they let a couple of his kin into college when otherwise they would not have qualified - is the University better off for the obscene amount of money he has donated? His donations probably has had impact on many things that have improved things at OSU. There may have been some winners and losers - but I would guess that overall it has been a pretty substantial plus for Oklahoma State. Regardless - this is a matter between OSU and Pickens.
I try to personally avoid, 'I hate that this underserving person was able to get this because of family wealth or notoriety'. It is none of my business - and I am much happier not caring.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 14:04:18 GMT -5
Heck, the whole legacy admission thing is dodgy. But that's America. It's a constant struggle between equality and wealth brings privilege. The lie that is told is that everyone can be wealthy if they just work hard. It's not true. It's sort of true if they mean in two-four generations, but that's iffy too. It's so easy to lose what you've gained.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 14:06:18 GMT -5
And I agree with the general sentiment that envy is bad for the soul. BUT if the system is set up to maintain the status quo? It needs work.
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Post by Wolfgang on Mar 14, 2019 14:20:57 GMT -5
I learned 4 things as a junior high student:
1. The American Dream is about who you know and who you blow, plus a healthy dose of luck. 2. The time value of money. 3. I have to work smart, not work hard. 4. My parents were in no position to help me, so I'll have to do it myself.
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Post by volleylearner on Mar 14, 2019 15:50:57 GMT -5
Does this family deserve the perks? I’m ready to hear your thoughts. Short answer is no. A donation is not a purchase--getting anything in return makes it not longer tax-deductible (yes, I know someone can give x+y where x is a donation and y is the value of a purchase such as the cost of a meal at a fundraising dinner). I don't think giving a big donation should entitle the donor's descendants to admission. However, the longer answer is more nuanced. Many schools have high list prices that only rich people can afford. Only a dozen or two schools can afford completely need-blind admissions, so for most schools there is already an assumption that some people are admitted because they don't need financial aid. I think that's different from parents donating a building but of course parents that can afford to give a building usually can afford to pay list price. Even public universities have this problem--it is often appealing for state schools to admit out-of-state and international students because the price is much higher than for in-state students. In addition, many schools don't select individual applicants for admission--they admit an entire class as a single decision. This approach allows them to balance different kinds of students in a class, but the downside is that it is hard to figure out how the decisions are made from the outside. And the truth is the schools that get the most applicants are often essentialy flipping a coin. It isn't actual random, but when you have ten roughly equally-qualified applicants for one spot the choice can be pretty arbitrary. It is this situation--lots of qualified applicants for a small number of spots--where choosing some number of legacy applicants seems ok to me. Legacy students have a cultural background that the college probably considers to be a positive. So does a family deserve to have children admitted because parents made a big donation? No. Does it make sense for a college to choose a certain percentage of applicants that don't need financial aid? Yes. Does it make sense to admit a certain percentage of well-qualified legacy applicants? Yes.
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 14, 2019 21:22:09 GMT -5
Beyond college admission there are SO many perks the wealthy can buy. Political influence. Getting to socialize in "elite" business circle. Flying first/business class all the time (or for the ultra-wealthy-your private jet), driving an exotic sports car or a Rolls Royce, having a big private yacht, or owning your private tropical island. Not having to be worried about "average-man-on-the-street" concerns like mortgages and taxes (unless if we talking about finding means for tax evasion-legally).
Now if you earn that by your own effort, say as a successful entrepreneur, fine. The more interesting question is if you simply inherited the wealth...then....hmmmm.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 22:33:29 GMT -5
Then there are people who inherited wealth from parents who were shady at best and then used that wealth and increased it by even shadier means.
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Post by XAsstCoach on Mar 15, 2019 1:07:24 GMT -5
As I said in another thread, a substantial donation from a wealthy and well known alumn at the last school I worked at got his grandson in. Grades and test scores alone could not get him in, but gramps donation did. Could remember the sarcasms I heard from admissions and the registrars office while this was happening...and yes, he flunked out after one year.
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 16, 2019 6:48:51 GMT -5
If I were to do this, I would set up an endowment or some building fund in my name toward a wing or a building at, let's say, Duke. Also, I would tell the officials that I have three kids who will apply to this school and "wouldn't it be great if they were accepted here?" Then, I would say I will add $1M to the endowment every year. If, say, I was very unhappy about something *hint*hint*, I would no longer continue to add $1M to the endowment and I will cut all my ties to the school. Finally, I would say that due to my unhappiness, I will set up an even bigger endowment at a rival school, say UNC. But I would never do any of this shiite. My kids got into great schools on their own. Yes, with no help from daddy and mommy. Or, you could just say straight out: "If I make this donation, I want a guarantee that my three kids will be accepted here if they decide to enroll." If the college says yes, then no need for this nudge-nudge-wink-wink crap. And if they say no, you have kept your millions of dollars.
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Post by tomclen on Mar 16, 2019 9:46:39 GMT -5
The problem is not the fact that the wealthy at the top of the pole of life always have a leg up and enormous advantages.
The problem is at the bottom of the pole, where being born into poverty almost ensures staying there. Sure, you can cite a handful of anecdotal "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" stories, but that's just not the norm. Upward mobility in this country is relatively rare - especially if you're not white.
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Post by ironhammer on Mar 16, 2019 10:40:31 GMT -5
The problem is not the fact that the wealthy at the top of the pole of life always have a leg up and enormous advantages. The problem is at the bottom of the pole, where being born into poverty almost ensures staying there. Sure, you can cite a handful of anecdotal "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" stories, but that's just not the norm. Upward mobility in this country is relatively rare - especially if you're not white.
Social Mobility is getting worse too I might add. Usually that is a receipe for political and social instability if the level gets too extreme. In the US and the West, inequality has been growing, but the will to tackle it has been lacking.
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