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Post by hochee on Mar 19, 2019 20:57:10 GMT -5
I know the difference between a heavy ball and a fast ball (from hitters) when I see it but would there be a difference if you put a radar gun on each? Like, how does Foecke compare to Quaid in terms of MPH? Or pick a different pair. Maybe Plummer and White of Texas. Seems that Samedy hits a heavy ball. Can you even define "heavy"?
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 19, 2019 21:01:49 GMT -5
Since a hitter can't actually change the mass of the ball by hitting it, if there is any reality to a "heavy" ball then it must be some physical parameter. Spin, maybe? Does a "heavy" ball have a different spin to it?
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Post by hochee on Mar 19, 2019 21:08:58 GMT -5
That's kinda where I was leaning -- maybe slower topspin. I don't know but really curious about the actual speed. I think it's hit and miss in terms of publicizing who hits how fast? And to be fair or have a reasonable constant, I'd guess the measure would have to be on balls past the 10M -- dunk shots don't count
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Post by silversurfer on Mar 19, 2019 21:25:58 GMT -5
To me a heavy ball is one where the hitter doesn’t look like they crushed it, but it comes off the hand harrrrrdddd.
And it happens consistently on all kinds of sets, whether in transition or serve receive.
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Post by Fight On! on Mar 19, 2019 21:43:26 GMT -5
I always just thought a heavy ball meant it was hit hard.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 22:11:47 GMT -5
Quaid is a much better actor than Foecke.
As for hitting a heavy ball, I'd venture to guess it just means someone who hits it hard but doesn't look like she has to expend a lot of effort to do so.
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Post by naujack85 on Mar 19, 2019 22:52:50 GMT -5
To me a heavy ball is one where the hitter doesn’t look like they crushed it, but it comes off the hand harrrrrdddd. And it happens consistently on all kinds of sets, whether in transition or serve receive. I like this explanation. Who would you say has hit the heaviest ball in the last 20 years in the NCAA? First person that comes to my mind is Hana Cutura. Never seen an outside pound the ball so hard. Still remember her dismantling of Nebraska in the 2007 regional final.
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 19, 2019 23:51:26 GMT -5
The ball is never "harder" or "less hard" depending on who hit it. There are only really two variables in play: speed and spin.
I'm perfectly willing to believe that "a heavy ball" is meaningless ... just something people say as an excuse when they misjudge the hit. But on the other hand, I've heard for years that some people hit "heavy balls" more than others. If that's not utter nonsense, then it should be able to be measured in either speed or spin or some combination of both.
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Post by vbsam16 on Mar 19, 2019 23:59:49 GMT -5
I think of a heavy ball as being more of a thump on the ball rather than a smack for a fast hit. I hope the onomatopoeia there can help explain what I mean. Usually a thump comes from a slower armswing but the timing is essentially perfect, so the momentum transfers to the ball really easily. Players that come to mind are Yaazie, Thayer Hall, Nikki Taylor, and Plummer.
A fast ball is more of a smack that comes from a really fast armswing with slightly worse timing. I’m thinking more Fitzmorris, Quade, Sun, and Holly Carlton.
That’s how I think of it anyway.
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Post by sonofdogman on Mar 20, 2019 6:39:47 GMT -5
There's science, and then there's pseudoscience VolleyTalk
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Post by hochee on Mar 20, 2019 7:17:41 GMT -5
That is really what I'm wondering -- whether there are relevant metrics or science out there. I was a football receiver and I know there is a PERCEIVED difference between a heavy and a light ball. I don't think a rising ball is ever heavy, but not all level or "descending" ones (like volleyball spikes) are. And I would say Dennis (not Randy) Quaid is a better actor than Foecke. Apologies to Miss Quade, whose acting skills are actually unknown to me. :-)
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Post by craftylefty on Mar 20, 2019 7:47:06 GMT -5
To me, a good example of this contrast can be seen in the Minnesota opposite hitters going from 2012 to 2013. Katherine Harms had an incredibly fast armswing, and her hits would often bounce off the floor and into the high rafters. Adrianna Nora, on the other hand, probably buckled a few floorboards by burying her hits into the ground. Definitely a prime example of a heavy arm.
I wonder also if there is some connection between "fast-twitch" athletes having the generally faster arms, too.
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Post by rblackley on Mar 20, 2019 9:13:35 GMT -5
A coach saying a hitter hits a heavy ball is just a nice way of saying she is a beefy girl.
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Post by SportyBucky on Mar 20, 2019 10:05:10 GMT -5
Since a hitter can't actually change the mass of the ball by hitting it, if there is any reality to a "heavy" ball then it must be some physical parameter. Spin, maybe? Does a "heavy" ball have a different spin to it? To me, a heavy ball is more flat with less spin, and of course delivered at a high velocity. The sound is something people focus on, but I'm not sure that's meaningful.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Mar 20, 2019 10:11:29 GMT -5
I think the premise is off. When I think about a fast hit it is more about what happens precontact - the fast "non-heavy" hit probably isn't coming off the hand faster than a "heavy" one (though it's a quick game so this may be hard to really differentiate in real time - and how much reaction time you have depends on how deep in the court you're playing) and the "fast" hit catches you otherwise out of position or not fully ready to defend the play as it developed on the other side of the net more quickly.
I’m not sure there’s a meaningful difference between a “hard” hit and a heavy hit. Heavy always seems to be in the context of defenders making contact but not being able to handle the ball - so it’s more about hard hits that aren’t steep or well placed enough to hit the floor. I doubt there are truly hard hits that wouldn't be considered heavy, and the hard/heavy hits are probably also faster.
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