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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 4, 2019 13:35:38 GMT -5
So, from my understanding, you get 5 years to play 4 years. Also, it's my understanding that the clock starts to run as soon as you enroll in college. But I've also heard that the clock automatically starts one year from high school graduation (with exceptions for some sports like golf and tennis) if, for some reason, you didn't enroll before that time. If, for some reason, the foreign student can't get her ducks in a row for her "natural" freshman year (due to all the extra hoops detailed above) and have to delay her start of American college for a year, it's my understanding she still gets her "5 years to play 4" right. I Believe the clock starts when you enroll full-time (12 credits). Example: Shawn Olmstead (BYU men’s coach) Age 18 -Enrolled in 11 credits for 2 semesters at a JC after high school. Age 19-21 Went on a mission. Age 21-22 Came home, redshirted Age 23 Freshman season What JC classes did he take? Where did he go on his mission? Where is "home"?
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 4, 2019 14:18:25 GMT -5
So, from my understanding, you get 5 years to play 4 years. Also, it's my understanding that the clock starts to run as soon as you enroll in college. But I've also heard that the clock automatically starts one year from high school graduation (with exceptions for some sports like golf and tennis) if, for some reason, you didn't enroll before that time. If, for some reason, the foreign student can't get her ducks in a row for her "natural" freshman year (due to all the extra hoops detailed above) and have to delay her start of American college for a year, it's my understanding she still gets her "5 years to play 4" right. NCAA rules allow 5 years to play 4. The clock starts when an athlete enrolls full-time in college. Certain situations do not start the clock like a high school student taking college courses, taking a couple of courses part-time at a community college before starting full-time at a 4 year college, or taking courses in a summer semester at a college. Basically it is situations where an athlete wouldn't be eligible to compete in a sport. There are also situations where an athlete can put their clock on "hold" after they start full-time at a college. The two most common are military service or a mission trip. I think those are the only two specifically listed in the NCAA manual, but there also is an appeal provision for special situations. Also there is the ability for an athlete to appeal for a sixth year to complete their 4 years of competition which requires missing at least 2 years of competition for circumstances beyond the athlete's or school's control with the most common being injury.
For domestic athletes in NCAA schools, there is no time limit on starting the clock. For example, there have been numerous cases of athletes going the pro baseball route out of high school, then quit baseball after a few years, and start school in their mid 20s to typically play football.
What you may be hearing is that certain sports do have age limits on foreign athletes participating. I think the primary driver of this was that years ago several track programs started recruiting foreign athletes in their mid or late 20s that had never been in college with the largest group being distance runners from countries like Kenya. This led to sports with significant numbers of older foreign athletes passing age limits. Not familiar with the exact limits or if there is one in volleyball.
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 4, 2019 14:26:58 GMT -5
I Believe the clock starts when you enroll full-time (12 credits). Example: Shawn Olmstead (BYU men’s coach) Age 18 -Enrolled in 11 credits for 2 semesters at a JC after high school. Age 19-21 Went on a mission. Age 21-22 Came home, redshirted Age 23 Freshman season What JC classes did he take? Where did he go on his mission? Where is "home"? Not AZVB, but I can give some general answers related to the prior questions you asked.
Which JC classes he took is not relevant. The relevance is that he was a part-time student when he took them so being part-time didn't start his eligibility clock. Where he went on a mission is also not relevant. I'm assuming it was a LDS mission which are normally two years and can be either in the US or in a foreign country. LDS missions are well-recognized by the NCAA. I'm going to assume he went to BYU so coming home likely means he was from Utah.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 4, 2019 14:34:16 GMT -5
What JC classes did he take? Where did he go on his mission? Where is "home"? Not AZVB, but I can give some general answers related to the prior questions you asked.
Which JC classes he took is not relevant. The relevance is that he was a part-time student when he took them so being part-time didn't start his eligibility clock. Where he went on a mission is also not relevant. I'm assuming it was a LDS mission which are normally two years and can be either in the US or in a foreign country. LDS missions are well-recognized by the NCAA. I'm going to assume he went to BYU so coming home likely means he was from Utah.
My reply to azvb was not relevant to the commitment/scholarship questions of this thread. I was just curious about Olmstead. And, I was just hassling azvb.
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 4, 2019 14:45:01 GMT -5
Not AZVB, but I can give some general answers related to the prior questions you asked.
Which JC classes he took is not relevant. The relevance is that he was a part-time student when he took them so being part-time didn't start his eligibility clock. Where he went on a mission is also not relevant. I'm assuming it was a LDS mission which are normally two years and can be either in the US or in a foreign country. LDS missions are well-recognized by the NCAA. I'm going to assume he went to BYU so coming home likely means he was from Utah.
My reply to azvb was not relevant to the commitment/scholarship questions of this thread. I was just curious about Olmstead. And, I was just hassling azvb .
I assume all of your questions (other than to azvb) are related to the UH foreign recruit that reportedly hasn't signed an LOI.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 4, 2019 15:01:32 GMT -5
My reply to azvb was not relevant to the commitment/scholarship questions of this thread. I was just curious about Olmstead. And, I was just hassling azvb .
I assume all of your questions (other than to azvb) are related to the UH foreign recruit that reportedly hasn't signed an LOI.
How perceptive of you. I was generally interested in the subject matter. I already know some of the answers but unsure of a few others. And yes, I was thinking ahead of the Swedish player and consequences of not getting all her ducks in a row in time.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 4, 2019 15:07:56 GMT -5
In many cases, a student-athlete can finish her athletic career and education in 4 years. Not always though. Some have to stay an extra semester or a year (or two) to get that degree. How does the athletic scholarship work in this case?
I'm assuming that a student-athlete who redshirted one year and then played the remaining 4 years could get, potentially, all 5 years covered. But she was with the team during that entire time.
In the case of the student-athlete who used up all her eligibility but still needs more credits to graduate can't be covered by an athletic scholarship. Normally, if the school has the resources, those student-athletes will be covered by some sort of academic or pseudo-athletic scholarship to cover or defray part of the cost of her education. Is this true?
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Post by hammer on Apr 4, 2019 15:26:52 GMT -5
5 to play 4 -- ok, but I think I've got one year of eligibility ...
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 4, 2019 15:30:42 GMT -5
^ That pic is not large enough. ^
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 4, 2019 15:37:06 GMT -5
In many cases, a student-athlete can finish her athletic career and education in 4 years. Not always though. Some have to stay an extra semester or a year (or two) to get that degree. How does the athletic scholarship work in this case? I'm assuming that a student-athlete who redshirted one year and then played the remaining 4 years could get, potentially, all 5 years covered. But she was with the team during that entire time. In the case of the student-athlete who used up all her eligibility but still needs more credits to graduate can't be covered by an athletic scholarship. Normally, if the school has the resources, those student-athletes will be covered by some sort of academic or pseudo-athletic scholarship to cover or defray part of the cost of her education. Is this true? Not sure, but I believe the school is able to let the athlete remain on scholarship in a post-eligibility situation that you describe without the scholarship "counting". One thing I've noticed in following Texas is that this type of situation doesn't occur nearly as much as years ago. For athletes that stay all four years, it's a high rate that do graduate in the four years or earlier. I suspect that is likely the situation at most other schools. I suspect the impetus for this was when the NCAA started tracking measuring progress toward graduation as well as most athletes now go to school every summer including the summer before their freshman year.
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Post by azvb on Apr 4, 2019 15:38:10 GMT -5
I Believe the clock starts when you enroll full-time (12 credits). Example: Shawn Olmstead (BYU men’s coach) Age 18 -Enrolled in 11 credits for 2 semesters at a JC after high school. Age 19-21 Went on a mission. Age 21-22 Came home, redshirted Age 23 Freshman season What JC classes did he take? Where did he go on his mission? Where is "home"? His transcripts are not on the BYU site, therefore I can only guess an English class, probably a math class. Argentina Carpenteria, CA I’ll see if I can find his blood type if you’d like. 😉
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 4, 2019 15:46:49 GMT -5
What JC classes did he take? Where did he go on his mission? Where is "home"? His transcripts are not on the BYU site, therefore I can only guess an English class, probably a math class. Argentina Carpenteria, CAI’ll see if I can find his blood type if you’d like. 😉 Carpinteria! My wife and I vacationed there (with our dog) a couple years ago. We treated it as our home base while we took in the sights north (Santa Barbara) and south (Ventura).
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Post by sisyphus on Apr 4, 2019 17:12:00 GMT -5
In the case of the student-athlete who used up all her eligibility but still needs more credits to graduate can't be covered by an athletic scholarship. Normally, if the school has the resources, those student-athletes will be covered by some sort of academic or pseudo-athletic scholarship to cover or defray part of the cost of her education. Is this true? Many larger/richer athletic departments do have funds available for those "scholarship" situations. The S-A no longer counts against the sport's total number of scholarship athletes (in headcount sports) or the S-A's awards are not counted against the sport's total scholarship money (in equivalency sports). The S-A effectively becomes "just" a student.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 5, 2019 2:17:00 GMT -5
More questions:
1. Let’s say this foreign student was unable to get her paperwork done on time and couldn’t register for classes for the fall semester. Would she be able to practice with the team in the fall? Obviously, she’s not a student because she couldn’t register in time so she would be like a volunteer, I guess?
2. If this same foreign student gets her paperwork done before the spring 2020 semester, would she then be on scholarship for the spring 2020 semester and her clock starts as soon as she enrolls for classes? One benefit to starting in the spring is that she could play beach (on indoor scholarship) or get in some spring training and get some classes out of the way.
3. For q#2 above, would it be better if she enrolled in the fall 2020 instead?
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 5, 2019 5:54:36 GMT -5
More questions: 1. Let’s say this foreign student was unable to get her paperwork done on time and couldn’t register for classes for the fall semester. Would she be able to practice with the team in the fall? Obviously, she’s not a student because she couldn’t register in time so she would be like a volunteer, I guess? 2. If this same foreign student gets her paperwork done before the spring 2020 semester, would she then be on scholarship for the spring 2020 semester and her clock starts as soon as she enrolls for classes? One benefit to starting in the spring is that she could play beach (on indoor scholarship) or get in some spring training and get some classes out of the way. 3. For q#2 above, would it be better if she enrolled in the fall 2020 instead? I don't believe she can practice with the team if she is not a student.
She could do #2 as long as the school has an open scholarship for the spring. Since volleyball is a fall sport, no disadvantage in remaining eligibility enrolling in the spring vs. the fall.
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