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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 7:38:21 GMT -5
Is Skinner playing up or is she just playing her age on her club team? Trying to compare if she has a one year headstart in developing over the other 2020ās. Lots of 2020's are playing up right now, though the 18's overall isn't all that strong. A number of the better 2019 players aren't playing club this year. early enrollment in college to participate in spring season?
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Post by oldhead on Apr 15, 2019 9:44:50 GMT -5
Lots of 2020's are playing up right now, though the 18's overall isn't all that strong. A number of the better 2019 players aren't playing club this year. early enrollment in college to participate in spring season? There are several girls where it appears they are "playing up", but they are not. They were held back a year in school (for one reason or another) and they have to play on 18's because of their age. Nothing against the players, they are still very talented, but you have to measure the birth date when comparing players. The same is true for several top 2021's that appear to be "playing up". This could be its on topic, but how do you evaluate one versus the other? Back to lurking again :-)
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Post by vbjustice on Apr 15, 2019 10:15:07 GMT -5
early enrollment in college to participate in spring season?Ā Ā There are several girls where it appears they are "playing up", but they are not. They were held back a year in school (for one reason or another) and they have to play on 18's because of their age. Nothing against the players, they are still very talented, but you have to measure the birth date when comparing players. The same is true for several top 2021's that appear to be "playing up". This could be its on topic, but how do you evaluate one versus the other? Back to lurking again :-) Well, this is interesting. And yes, a different topic unto itself. I remember reading the Malcom Gladwell book, Outliers and got a better understanding of this phenomena of holding kids back for reasons related to having an advantage in sports.
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 15, 2019 13:54:15 GMT -5
There are several girls where it appears they are "playing up", but they are not. They were held back a year in school (for one reason or another) and they have to play on 18's because of their age. Nothing against the players, they are still very talented, but you have to measure the birth date when comparing players. The same is true for several top 2021's that appear to be "playing up". This could be its on topic, but how do you evaluate one versus the other? Back to lurking again :-) Well, this is interesting. And yes, a different topic unto itself. I remember reading the Malcom Gladwell book, Outliers and got a better understanding of this phenomena of holding kids back for reasons related to having an advantage in sports. Not every player that was held back was done for sports reasons. A number of kids with summer birthdays are held back (usually started in school a year later) because of maturity reasons as a child. My oldest daughter has a mid-August birthday and we gave quite a bit of thought to holding her back when she was about to start school.
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 15, 2019 13:57:16 GMT -5
early enrollment in college to participate in spring season? There are several girls where it appears they are "playing up", but they are not. They were held back a year in school (for one reason or another) and they have to play on 18's because of their age. Nothing against the players, they are still very talented, but you have to measure the birth date when comparing players. The same is true for several top 2021's that appear to be "playing up". This could be its on topic, but how do you evaluate one versus the other? Back to lurking again :-) I think this is less of a consideration for female recruits out of high school than male recruits because of the typical earlier maturity.
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Post by eazy on Apr 15, 2019 15:24:13 GMT -5
I think a full year of training and play is an advantage. A lot of kids are being held back these days. A lot for athletics especially in male sports. I cannot honestly sit here and say that you're wrong, but I would love to see some statistics if you have any. Perhaps a percentage of All Americans that have a July/August birthday and are a full year older than their peers, but only in comparison to athletes of the same grade? I just don't know that I believe "a lot" of kids are being held back for an advantage in sports. You're talking about holding back a 6/7 year old because their parents want them to have an athletic advantage 11 years or so in the future? I'm sure it's one of the considerations for some people, but imo not the driving force for most people.
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Post by n00b on Apr 15, 2019 15:33:00 GMT -5
It's been a while since I read Outliers, but my recollection was not that people were gaming the system. If the cut off for junior ice hockey is January 1, there was an inherent advantage to being born on December 31st vs January 2nd. The former is 363 days older than the latter and when you hold tryouts for 6-year-olds, he'll have a huge advantage in making elite teams. Get placed on higher level teams, the more the kid will improve.
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 15, 2019 16:21:18 GMT -5
It's been a while since I read Outliers, but my recollection was not that people were gaming the system. If the cut off for junior ice hockey is January 1, there was an inherent advantage to being born on December 31st vs January 2nd. The former is 363 days older than the latter and when you hold tryouts for 6-year-olds, he'll have a huge advantage in making elite teams. Get placed on higher level teams, the more the kid will improve. Isn't the advantage reversed to what you state? The 12/31 kid would be the youngest in the age group, while the 1/2 would be the oldest in the following age group.
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Post by n00b on Apr 15, 2019 16:39:57 GMT -5
It's been a while since I read Outliers, but my recollection was not that people were gaming the system. If the cut off for junior ice hockey is January 1, there was an inherent advantage to being born on December 31st vs January 2nd. The former is 363 days older than the latter and when you hold tryouts for 6-year-olds, he'll have a huge advantage in making elite teams. Get placed on higher level teams, the more the kid will improve. Isn't the advantage reversed to what you state? The 12/31 kid would be the youngest in the age group, while the 1/2 would be the oldest in the following age group. Oops. Yes.
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Post by trainermch on Apr 17, 2019 7:44:16 GMT -5
It's been a while since I read Outliers, but my recollection was not that people were gaming the system. If the cut off for junior ice hockey is January 1, there was an inherent advantage to being born on December 31st vs January 2nd. The former is 363 days older than the latter and when you hold tryouts for 6-year-olds, he'll have a huge advantage in making elite teams. Get placed on higher level teams, the more the kid will improve. Jr ice hockey and USA Volleyball are opposites then. A clear disadvantage in USA tryouts when you have a Dec. birthday. You play with teammates who could be a full year older than you with a full year's more experience.
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 17, 2019 8:18:47 GMT -5
It's been a while since I read Outliers, but my recollection was not that people were gaming the system. If the cut off for junior ice hockey is January 1, there was an inherent advantage to being born on December 31st vs January 2nd. The former is 363 days older than the latter and when you hold tryouts for 6-year-olds, he'll have a huge advantage in making elite teams. Get placed on higher level teams, the more the kid will improve. Jr ice hockey and USA Volleyball are opposites then. A clear disadvantage in USA tryouts when you have a Dec. birthday. You play with teammates who could be a full year older than you with a full year's more experience. As he acknowledged above, his statement on ice hockey was in error.
Do they use 1/1 as the cutoff in USA tryouts? I know they use 9/1 (or maybe 8/1) as the cutoff for club ball.
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Post by trainermch on Apr 17, 2019 8:20:59 GMT -5
Jr ice hockey and USA Volleyball are opposites then. A clear disadvantage in USA tryouts when you have a Dec. birthday. You play with teammates who could be a full year older than you with a full year's more experience. As he acknowledged above, his statement on ice hockey was in error.
Do they use 1/1 as the cutoff in USA tryouts? I know they use 9/1 (or maybe 8/1) as the cutoff for club ball.
Yes, I saw that after I had already posted. Yes, 1/1 is cutoff for USA.
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Post by trainermch on Apr 17, 2019 8:23:23 GMT -5
Further, rosters are compiled in 2-year segments, so sometimes that Dec. bday kid will play with athletes 2 years older than they.
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Post by n00b on Apr 17, 2019 9:49:06 GMT -5
The 2-year January 1 cutoff is for FIVB events. So for Youth National and Junior National teams, birth date really does play a big role.
USA Volleyball club events use September 1 to try to keep kids that are in the same grade playing together.
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 17, 2019 10:34:51 GMT -5
Further, rosters are compiled in 2-year segments, so sometimes that Dec. bday kid will play with athletes 2 years older than they. I'm going to assume 1/1 must be a common cutoff internationally. Not surprising since organized sports are not common outside in other countries.
Once you get to high school age, the age difference is usually not as big a deal with girls as it is with boys. At least typically doesn't make a big difference physically. Differences tend be more experience and skill rather than physical development.
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