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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Apr 5, 2019 18:29:10 GMT -5
Do club coaches ever tell the truth and say BAD things about their kids? Whenever I wrote letters of recommendations or when employers called about a potential employee, I found it very difficult (if not impossible) to say anything negative. Hmmm good point. My thoughts about this situation were that volley dad wanted to know full details and maybe coach/director was taken off guard. IDK.
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Post by trainermch on Apr 5, 2019 19:11:33 GMT -5
Do club coaches ever tell the truth and say BAD things about their kids? Whenever I wrote letters of recommendations or when employers called about a potential employee, I found it very difficult (if not impossible) to say anything negative. Hmmm good point. My thoughts about this situation were that volley dad wanted to know full details and maybe coach/director was taken off guard. IDK. I was thinking there was just not enough meat on those bones to satisfy that dad. If your kid is really good, you probably know it. If your club coach hands you a coach's business card after a match and says, "They're interested...touch base with them soon," then you really know all you need to know and the rest is up to you. If your kid is just pretty good but is being looked at, you can't put it on the club coach to sell your kid. That's up to the athlete when being observed on (and off) the court. The conversation regarding some of the intangibles listed by karellen might be hard to recap with an intense/hungry parent. Glad y'all were at Costco and samples were nearby. hehe
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Post by karellen on Apr 5, 2019 19:22:14 GMT -5
Do club coaches ever tell the truth and say BAD things about their kids? Whenever I wrote letters of recommendations or when employers called about a potential employee, I found it very difficult (if not impossible) to say anything negative. Yes. It is important for Club Coaches to be honest with College coaches. As soon as you sugar coat one kid and hide deficiencies or weaknesses, you have lost credibility with that college coach and just made it tougher to get other kids recruited.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Apr 5, 2019 20:01:56 GMT -5
Are the parents crazy? ... I'm really curious about this, because there seems to be a huge paranoia of parents among volleyball coaches from club on up, and there is a constant mantra that parents should get out of the way and have no visible part in the recruiting process. With the basketball final fours this weekend, there are lots of interviews with coaches and it comes up all the time how coaches actively recruit the parents, meet with mom and grandma in their house, etc. The same is true with football. Why the stark contrast? I think 1. Basketball parents are more suspicious of basketball coaches, or need more convincing, especially considering the college coach _could_ help the child get to the NBA. Not to mention that coaches promise more. And with all that’s riding on this decision, the coaches have to spend more time with the family to help secure the commitment. 2. More money on the line, more wooing.
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Apr 5, 2019 20:40:12 GMT -5
So former volley kid came home from work and I asked her about this kid and her family. Wondering if there was something I was missing in that situation. I guess director/coach peeved off this family a couple of years ago, about what I didn’t ask, and my daughter said that ever since then the family have been super unhappy with just about everything.
Not sure why they didn’t jump ship, it’s not like another club isn’t spitting distance away. 😅
Anyway I actually have found the rest of this discussion fascinating and hopefully helpful for someone in the future.
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Post by reader on Apr 8, 2019 10:03:21 GMT -5
I'm really curious about this, because there seems to be a huge paranoia of parents among volleyball coaches from club on up, and there is a constant mantra that parents should get out of the way and have no visible part in the recruiting process. With the basketball final fours this weekend, there are lots of interviews with coaches and it comes up all the time how coaches actively recruit the parents, meet with mom and grandma in their house, etc. The same is true with football. Why the stark contrast? See I love that you wrote that. I always wondered about the disconnect in vball vs other sports. It seems that meeting with the parents would give a good insight into a kids’ background and history, could explain stuff that is questionable that could potentially be worked on in a team environment. It sounds like a time commitment thing, and a changing of focus from what we have now. A whole shift in the paradigm on how parents are looked at. Without trying to stir up a lot of trouble, here are a few lines of inquiry. No answers, and not trying to be a jerk, but perhaps parts of a puzzle. First, comparing the NCAA experiences of revenue sport athletes to Olympic sport athletes is problematic, or sports with professional opportunities vs college being more or less the end of the line. Of course the parents with NFL, NBA, Game of the Week, ESPN stars in their eyes are going to be a bit dazzled. The word career takes on an entirely different meaning, and the NCAA can be an important stepping stone in that journey. It's hard to translate that to VB in any meaningful way for the vast majority of players. Next, volleyball is a higher cost sport than FB or BB, frequently played by people with higher incomes. The travel and club scene for BB can be just as expensive, but there are ways a lot of lower income BB players participate; there really aren't the same widely available opportunities in VB at the highest levels of the sport. So, beyond the professional career thing, do these higher income parents want different things from the college experience than lower income families? In many cases VB families can afford some form of college even without a scholarship, where a poorer FB family, for example, might not. There are individuals that need to play to afford college in all sports, but what's more common when you're at a club tournament next weekend? Finally we're talking women's VB vs men's BB or FB. Are coaches of women's teams more sensitive to issues of chemistry than men's coaches? Are woman head coaches (essentially non-existent in the men's game) different from male coaches in how willing they are to take on the challenges of a Difficult player? No one wants a complete PITA on their roster, but do concerns of locker room comity weight more heavily in the women's game?
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Apr 8, 2019 12:47:34 GMT -5
See I love that you wrote that. I always wondered about the disconnect in vball vs other sports. It seems that meeting with the parents would give a good insight into a kids’ background and history, could explain stuff that is questionable that could potentially be worked on in a team environment. It sounds like a time commitment thing, and a changing of focus from what we have now. A whole shift in the paradigm on how parents are looked at. Without trying to stir up a lot of trouble, here are a few lines of inquiry. No answers, and not trying to be a jerk, but perhaps parts of a puzzle. First, comparing the NCAA experiences of revenue sport athletes to Olympic sport athletes is problematic, or sports with professional opportunities vs college being more or less the end of the line. Of course the parents with NFL, NBA, Game of the Week, ESPN stars in their eyes are going to be a bit dazzled. The word career takes on an entirely different meaning, and the NCAA can be an important stepping stone in that journey. It's hard to translate that to VB in any meaningful way for the vast majority of players. Next, volleyball is a higher cost sport than FB or BB, frequently played by people with higher incomes. The travel and club scene for BB can be just as expensive, but there are ways a lot of lower income BB players participate; there really aren't the same widely available opportunities in VB at the highest levels of the sport. So, beyond the professional career thing, do these higher income parents want different things from the college experience than lower income families? In many cases VB families can afford some form of college even without a scholarship, where a poorer FB family, for example, might not. There are individuals that need to play to afford college in all sports, but what's more common when you're at a club tournament next weekend? Finally we're talking women's VB vs men's BB or FB. Are coaches of women's teams more sensitive to issues of chemistry than men's coaches? Are woman head coaches (essentially non-existent in the men's game) different from male coaches in how willing they are to take on the challenges of a Difficult player? No one wants a complete PITA on their roster, but do concerns of locker room comity weight more heavily in the women's game? You touch upon something I've always wondered about and because I operate on the asking questions level and because it's touched upon here…why is it that we expect female volleyball players to be the stereotypical cheerleader type? The social type who gets along with a big smile on their face without regard to what team chemistry may be…what dynamics may exist…maybe player A is having a bad day…maybe player is having trouble at home? Why do (the proverbial) "we" focus so much on the girls allegedly having fun on the court? Is it not possible to have a getting things done dynamic, mutual respect for others' abilities without all the fake smiles?
In the big feminist movements there's always this talk of the patriarchy but aren't we, as females, promoting some sort of warped stereotype by insisting all players fit a certain mold? Is it not true that the more quiet, introspective maybe introverted type of player has more thinking and strategizing going on in their brain? I've always read that extroverts speak to fit in where introverted types speak to make things better or improve.
I guess my real question is, having a couple of younger relatives in the sport that ARE quiet, more withdrawn types, are we excluding players based on personality type because they don't fit a mold?
Is this even the right thread to talk about this in…probably not but segue away!
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Post by rblackley on Apr 8, 2019 13:26:44 GMT -5
Attitude and how they get along with others is just as paramount as athletic ability. Volleyball requires a true team interaction more so than most other sports. There has to be a pass, set, and kill for an effective offense. 3 players have to do their job efficiently with good communication or the machine wont run. Of course there are exceptions to that rule but you cant have ball hogs in this sport.
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Post by donneyp on Apr 8, 2019 14:00:43 GMT -5
Are the parents crazy? ... I'm really curious about this, because there seems to be a huge paranoia of parents among volleyball coaches from club on up, and there is a constant mantra that parents should get out of the way and have no visible part in the recruiting process. With the basketball final fours this weekend, there are lots of interviews with coaches and it comes up all the time how coaches actively recruit the parents, meet with mom and grandma in their house, etc. The same is true with football. Why the stark contrast? I gave a talk to my old club about recruiting and one of the Dad's had been talking to a college for months and didn't know why they wouldn't offer. Turns out they had NEVER put the player on the phone. She hadn't read any of the e-mails. The Dad handled ALL of it. After he heard me explain that the coach wants to know the player that they are going to work with every day for 4 years, he asked the coach during their next phone call if he'd like to talk to the player... she had an offer 5 minutes later. A friend of mine coached D1. First phone call started like this "Hi this is Susie's Dad, she got an e-mail from you. So what will you give me for her?" The coach said "excuse me?" and the dad clarified "I'm talking about a scholarship. How much money is she worth to you?" That wasn't the best first impression. I've led several college tours where the player doesn't speak. Doesn't matter what the question is "what kind of coaching do you respond to?" "What is your favorite food?" or even "Do you speak?" (yes I've asked that) the parent answers everything. However, as you point out their are unintended consequences of these warnings... conscientious parents are afraid to get involved at all. A father found my recruiting memo online and asked me "you say the player should do most of the talking, but my daughter is only 13..." and obviously at that age parents need to be involved and fade out over time. That young lady committed at 16 and now has a national title ring. Parents can and should absolutely be involved. They just cannot overshadow the recruit. And honestly this is more forgiving if the recruit touches 10'8" than if she is a ds. The more players there are like you out there, the easier it is for them to find someone who is going to cause less trouble.
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Post by somethinbruin on Apr 8, 2019 14:15:27 GMT -5
Do club coaches ever tell the truth and say BAD things about their kids? Whenever I wrote letters of recommendations or when employers called about a potential employee, I found it very difficult (if not impossible) to say anything negative. I'm honest with coaches about my players' strengths and weaknesses. You've got to be if you want to maintain your credibility with the college coaches. If you sell them kids who can't play at their level, they'll stop looking at your club kids. Most of the time this means being honest about the intangibles, as college coaches are pretty good gauges of the physical/athletic attributes and potential of a player. But I will tell them if a kid isn't particularly coachable or if they struggle to make adjustments. I will tell them if the parents or the kid are high maintenance. The caveat here is that I will not tell a college coach anything that I wouldn't tell an athlete or their parents directly. If a player of mine is trying to get recruited, I'll meet with the player and parents to discuss her strengths and weaknesses, realistic goals for recruitment, and how to work the process. I wouldn't want a kid being surprised if they hear my assessment of them secondhand from someone else. In my full time job in academia, we write and read letters of rec all the time. If I can't give a hearty, positive recommendation there, I'll decline to write the letter. In our field, a lukewarm letter of rec is the equivalent of a negative recommendation. I see those all the time. "I am writing to recommend so-and-so for the position of assistant professor. He/She has proven herself competent in the field. His/her work fulfilled all the components of the program..."=this person sucks. I can't bring myself to write those tepid kinds of letters, so if a mediocre student asks for one, I decline.
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Post by Floyd R. Turbo on Apr 8, 2019 15:20:50 GMT -5
Are the parents crazy? ... I'm really curious about this, because there seems to be a huge paranoia of parents among volleyball coaches from club on up, and there is a constant mantra that parents should get out of the way and have no visible part in the recruiting process. With the basketball final fours this weekend, there are lots of interviews with coaches and it comes up all the time how coaches actively recruit the parents, meet with mom and grandma in their house, etc. The same is true with football. There's the old story about the football coach always recruiting the mother first in order to get the son to attend his school. In the version I've heard, it was former Nebraska football coach Bob Devaney. "Always recruit the mother first. If you get her, you're gonna get the kid. One time I spent half a year recruiting the mother of this great lineman from Kansas City. Really worked hard to sell her on Nebraska. Well, it worked. She ended up coming to Nebraska. Her kid went to Missouri."
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