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Post by jayj79 on Apr 18, 2019 22:44:37 GMT -5
It is possible that the book plotline follows a similar path to how the show went (she was told to kill a certain actress, because someone had hired the guild to take out their rival, but Arya decided that she didn't want to kill someone who didn't "deserve" it in her eyes), or it could go in a different direction. There have been instances of both thus far. We won't really know until GRRM finally publishes "Winds of Winter" (if he ever does) I think Cersei (sp?) contracted for the actress to be killed. in the HBO show, it is a rival actress who hired the Faceless Men to kill the other actress. Cersei wasn't involved at all. It has been a while since I've read the books, so I can't remember if there was any mention of just who was supposed to be killed, or if Cersei was involved. Though there is a sample chapter of "Winds of Winter" in which Arya is with the troupe of Mummers, though she ends up killing someone from her List instead of who the Faceless Men wanted her to kill
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 18, 2019 22:53:37 GMT -5
There is a sample chapter of "Winds of Winter" in which Arya is with the troupe of Mummers, though she ends up killing someone from her List instead of who the Faceless Men wanted her to kill Well, we know she ends up killing Raff the Sweetling in Bravos, if that sample chapter turns out to survive the editing process. All that means is that she's still killing for Arya Stark, but it doesn't mean she's not killing for the House Of Black And White. It's clearly a failure of her, in their eyes. They want her to kill for the Many Faced God and to give up her identity as Arya Stark. I suspect it will be a significant event, because it means she's still Arya rather than "no one".
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Post by ironhammer on Apr 18, 2019 23:52:53 GMT -5
I think Cersei (sp?) contracted for the actress to be killed. in the HBO show, it is a rival actress who hired the Faceless Men to kill the other actress. Cersei wasn't involved at all. It has been a while since I've read the books, so I can't remember if there was any mention of just who was supposed to be killed, or if Cersei was involved. Though there is a sample chapter of "Winds of Winter" in which Arya is with the troupe of Mummers, though she ends up killing someone from her List instead of who the Faceless Men wanted her to kill Comparing the books and the TV series, the first season of the show followed the books closely, but the later seasons diverged more and more from the books (i.e. SPOILERS...................................Catelyn Stark was resurrected in the novels like Jon Snow in the TV series, but she remains dead on the HBO series thus far and the fate of Little Finger is different in the TV series and novels). That might be partly due to the different mediums of TV and novels...and a whole host of other reasons.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 19, 2019 2:53:38 GMT -5
in the HBO show, it is a rival actress who hired the Faceless Men to kill the other actress. Cersei wasn't involved at all. It has been a while since I've read the books, so I can't remember if there was any mention of just who was supposed to be killed, or if Cersei was involved. Though there is a sample chapter of "Winds of Winter" in which Arya is with the troupe of Mummers, though she ends up killing someone from her List instead of who the Faceless Men wanted her to kill Comparing the books and the TV series, the first season of the show followed the books closely, but the later seasons diverged more and more from the books (i.e. SPOILERS...................................Catelyn Stark was resurrected in the novels like Jon Snow in the TV series, but she remains dead on the HBO series thus far and the fate of Little Finger is different in the TV series and novels). That might be partly due to the different mediums of TV and novels...and a whole host of other reasons. To say nothing of which "Sansa Stark" it is who gets married to Ramsay Bolton. Or the fact that Sandor Clegane never fights Brienne in the books. Instead he is wounded in another fight, and Arya leaves him to die. Later there are reports that The Hound has been committing atrocities all up and down the riverlands. But a gravedigger claims to have buried Sandor Clegane and left his hound-shaped helmet on the grave. The helmet was then stolen by a different outlaw named Rorge, and Brienne kills Rorge in a duel. A *third* person then takes the helmet and calls himself The Hound, this one serving "Lady Stoneheart" (aka the resurrected Catelyn Stark). They were always going to have to drastically abridge the novels, but in terms of plot and in terms of number of characters. Lots of novel characters are just gone in the TV series, while others who are still in the TV series sometimes pick up attributes and plot that they didn't have in the books. And of course, after about Season 5 the books hadn't even been written yet.
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Post by jayj79 on Apr 19, 2019 4:51:37 GMT -5
To say nothing of which "Sansa Stark" it is who gets married to Ramsay Bolton. In the books, Ramsay claims to marry "Arya Stark", who is actually Jeyne Poole (while the real Arya is of course still in Braavos). But "Arya" (Jeyne) and "Reek" (Theon) do end up escaping Winterfell, with the help of "Abel the Bard" (Mance Rayder, who was supposedly killed by Melisandre, but in truth Melisandre used her magic to make the "Lord of Bones" appear to be Mance and vice-versa). It gets really complicated. haha
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Post by gnu2vball on Apr 19, 2019 8:03:36 GMT -5
I think Cersei (sp?) contracted for the actress to be killed. in the HBO show, it is a rival actress who hired the Faceless Men to kill the other actress. Cersei wasn't involved at all. It has been a while since I've read the books, so I can't remember if there was any mention of just who was supposed to be killed, or if Cersei was involved. Though there is a sample chapter of "Winds of Winter" in which Arya is with the troupe of Mummers, though she ends up killing someone from her List instead of who the Faceless Men wanted her to kill Think you need to go back and look at the episode in which we meet the acting company. A couple of scenes before, we witness one of the denizens of Castlerock holding forth about how he enticed Cersei during her walk of shame by flashing his "equipment." We next see our raconteur as he pauses to relieve himself against a wall, only to turn around, see the Mountain, and have the back of his head rendered into goo as the Mountain smashes it into the wall behind him. Then... we see Cersei and Qyburn conversing in which she emphasizes how important it is for "his" sparrows to find all sources of criticism of Cersei across the lands of Westeros and beyond. That was our explanation of what we just saw. It was also foreshadowing. Because.... In the next scene we see an actress portraying Cersei crying over the just-poisoned Joffrey. And Arya is in the audience. Remember, Arya believed an actress let the contract. Her beliefs, although verbalized, were never confirmed. Cersei made the contract.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 8:35:17 GMT -5
As viewers we are privy to that information, but Arya is not. She hasn’t yet been thinking about the larger world. At this point Arya is still learning about herself and how she serves the House. Probably planning how to leave Braavos and defeat the Waif. It isnt until she's back on the Kingsroad that she learns a bit more about the state of the World. She hasn’t had the experience of Sansa to learn the scheming and playing at the Game of Thrones.
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Post by jayj79 on Apr 19, 2019 16:02:00 GMT -5
in the HBO show, it is a rival actress who hired the Faceless Men to kill the other actress. Cersei wasn't involved at all. It has been a while since I've read the books, so I can't remember if there was any mention of just who was supposed to be killed, or if Cersei was involved. Though there is a sample chapter of "Winds of Winter" in which Arya is with the troupe of Mummers, though she ends up killing someone from her List instead of who the Faceless Men wanted her to kill Think you need to go back and look at the episode in which we meet the acting company. A couple of scenes before, we witness one of the denizens of Castlerock holding forth about how he enticed Cersei during her walk of shame by flashing his "equipment." We next see our raconteur as he pauses to relieve himself against a wall, only to turn around, see the Mountain, and have the back of his head rendered into goo as the Mountain smashes it into the wall behind him. Then... we see Cersei and Qyburn conversing in which she emphasizes how important it is for "his" sparrows to find all sources of criticism of Cersei across the lands of Westeros and beyond. That was our explanation of what we just saw. It was also foreshadowing. Because.... In the next scene we see an actress portraying Cersei crying over the just-poisoned Joffrey. And Arya is in the audience. Remember, Arya believed an actress let the contract. Her beliefs, although verbalized, were never confirmed. Cersei made the contract. I suppose you're free to interpret it that way, but I just don't see it. Yes, Cersei is spiteful. But the actress's portrayal of Cersei isn't anywhere near criticism. I makes fun of Robert, Ned, Sansa, and Tyrion, sure. But Cersei wouldn't have any issue with that. If anything, the mummers' portrayal of the rest of the Lannisters was rather favorable. Nothing that Cersei would spend the large amount of gold that it would take to contract the Faceless Men to kill that particular actress.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 19, 2019 16:11:05 GMT -5
Think you need to go back and look at the episode in which we meet the acting company. A couple of scenes before, we witness one of the denizens of Castlerock holding forth about how he enticed Cersei during her walk of shame by flashing his "equipment." We next see our raconteur as he pauses to relieve himself against a wall, only to turn around, see the Mountain, and have the back of his head rendered into goo as the Mountain smashes it into the wall behind him. Then... we see Cersei and Qyburn conversing in which she emphasizes how important it is for "his" sparrows to find all sources of criticism of Cersei across the lands of Westeros and beyond. That was our explanation of what we just saw. It was also foreshadowing. Because.... In the next scene we see an actress portraying Cersei crying over the just-poisoned Joffrey. And Arya is in the audience. Remember, Arya believed an actress let the contract. Her beliefs, although verbalized, were never confirmed. Cersei made the contract. I suppose you're free to interpret it that way, but I just don't see it. Yes, Cersei is spiteful. But the actress's portrayal of Cersei isn't anywhere near criticism. I makes fun of Robert, Ned, Sansa, and Tyrion, sure. But Cersei wouldn't have any issue with that. If anything, the mummers' portrayal of the rest of the Lannisters was rather favorable. Nothing that Cersei would spend the large amount of gold that it would take to contract the Faceless Men to kill that particular actress. It is stated elsewhere that the price of a death by the Faceless Men is proportional to both the difficulty of the assignment and the ability of the person to pay. This is why King Robert does not hire them to kill Daenerys, even though it would have been the sure way to assassinate her. The price for the King of Westeros to assassinate the Targaryen heir would be immense. Littlefinger claimed it would be "more than hiring an entire mercenary company" (although he does lie a lot). In the books, King Robert eventually just put a bounty on her head, letting it be known that whoever kills her will get a lordship.
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Post by jayj79 on Apr 19, 2019 17:20:56 GMT -5
It is stated elsewhere that the price of a death by the Faceless Men is proportional to both the difficulty of the assignment and the ability of the person to pay. This is why King Robert does not hire them to kill Daenerys, even though it would have been the sure way to assassinate her. The price for the King of Westeros to assassinate the Targaryen heir would be immense. Littlefinger claimed it would be "more than hiring an entire mercenary company" (although he does lie a lot). In the books, King Robert eventually just put a bounty on her head, letting it be known that whoever kills her will get a lordship. I don't imagine the price for Cersei to hire the faceless men would be all that much cheaper than it would be for Robert (however, the price for the jealous actress wouldn't be as much). I just don't see Cersei bothering to have that actress killed.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 19, 2019 17:27:20 GMT -5
It is stated elsewhere that the price of a death by the Faceless Men is proportional to both the difficulty of the assignment and the ability of the person to pay. This is why King Robert does not hire them to kill Daenerys, even though it would have been the sure way to assassinate her. The price for the King of Westeros to assassinate the Targaryen heir would be immense. Littlefinger claimed it would be "more than hiring an entire mercenary company" (although he does lie a lot). In the books, King Robert eventually just put a bounty on her head, letting it be known that whoever kills her will get a lordship. I don't imagine the price for Cersei to hire the faceless men would be all that much cheaper than it would be for Robert Agreed, that was my point.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2019 22:27:35 GMT -5
It's been a long time since I read the books, but are you sure it's "Arya" that Ramsey Bolton marries? I am almost positive it was "Sansa". Jeyne Poole sounds right, but I couldn't swear to it. Or is Ramsey pretending Arya is Sansa and it isn't even Arya? I really forget.
The other big difference in the book is all the other Targaryens and Martells running about. Martin's cast of characters (and plots) just kept expanding and expanding. No wonder he's (seemingly) lost control.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2019 22:29:38 GMT -5
As for tonight's episode, I know some are going to hate it, but I liked it. I also get the feeling that they are going to resolve the White Walkers narrative much sooner than expected and move right into the mess that follows: Cersei and Jon/Dany.
That may be a huge letdown.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2019 22:46:28 GMT -5
How are the crypts the safest place to be? Can someone remind me, please. Ghost. Ser Davos cuts onions. Lyanna tells off Ser Jorah. Arya gets all the good lines and cool bow staff tipped with dragon glass. I want her on my darts team. Tormund is a great clapper. Do Sansa and Daenerys get to giggle and braid each other’s hair after the dead and Cersei are defeated? Do we really want Theon protecting Bran? Varys said zero words in this episode. Dont die Varys. I enjoyed it. Battle next Sunday. A bunch of them are going to die.
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Post by jayj79 on Apr 21, 2019 23:32:30 GMT -5
It's been a long time since I read the books, but are you sure it's "Arya" that Ramsey Bolton marries? I am almost positive it was "Sansa". Jeyne Poole sounds right, but I couldn't swear to it. Or is Ramsey pretending Arya is Sansa and it isn't even Arya? I really forget. I'm 100% certain that it is Jeyne Poole being passed off as "Arya". Poor Jeyne's story is perhaps the most tragic of them all. groupthink.kinja.com/why-jeyne-pooles-story-is-among-the-most-tragic-in-wes-1562851009
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