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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 22, 2019 13:09:40 GMT -5
A lot of kids quit a lot of things over silliness. Whether that's the case here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ...but let's not pretend like kids don't do irrational things all the time. One kid here and there? Yes. But three including the captain and 8 formal grievances filed? No. Still, I want to see more information before I make a hard stance. But yes, have you been around the hive mentality of mentally weak or entitled children who are used to getting their way by complaining or crying wolf these days when they all get together? Like I said before I absolutely agree he probably took too hard of a stance on some instances making him look terrible, but there is a TON of context mixing from these quotes and I don't think it paints a very good picture. For all we know there are a bunch of girls that were not recruited by him, do not like his militant coaching tactics, and the stress from a terrible season built up on both sides causing a bunch of immature young adults to go public with this and gain control of the story in the way they wanted people to see in hopes they got their coach fired because whatever they were doing prior was not working in their favor. The interviews and stories I want to hear are the girls that do not like this group of girls that filed complaints or the ones that really enjoy playing for this coach and just want to be exempt from the drama - I would be willing to bet some more truths or expanded details arise.
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Post by stanfordvb on Apr 22, 2019 13:46:45 GMT -5
Any recruit that reads this and still wants to go, is CRAZY
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Post by jcvball22 on Apr 22, 2019 13:49:13 GMT -5
You know what i hate? Every time something like this pops up, we assume it's because the kids are "mentally weak" or entitled. That is such a load of crap.
I work with students and athletes daily. And something I have found about this generation of kids: they are far less likely to put up with mistreatment, degradation, hypocrisy, and abuse simply because that "is the way things have always been done". We have seen an absolute mass of mistreatment uncovered in relation to coaches/administrations/staff and athletes and, even in the world at large. It's the newer generations that have stepped up, pointed it out, and said no more.
And yet, we STILL assume they are the weak and entitled ones.
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Post by n00b on Apr 22, 2019 13:51:46 GMT -5
As a penn alum on the graduate level, I found this article embarrassingly bad. Let me get this straight. The coach said next time hit her in the head. Not that anyone really got hit in the head. This is coaching 101 to get a kids attention. We can argue about how smart this is but it certainly isn't abuse. The story about the conversation with the coach just strikes me as bizarre. I am sure he said something like what is quoted but likely in a much longer conversation. Assume that the accuser took the conversation and put it in the worst possible light. Even in that context this just isn't abusive. And then someone lost their jacket. Who cares. This is just silly and more of a statement on the silliness of the modern university than anything else. FWIW, I have no idea if this guy is a good coach and would agree overall that the signs here are not good. I think the article probably does a poor job of outlining the conditions within the program. But three kids including one of the captains don't quit over silliness. And it wasn't just a lost jacket, it was a coach seemingly way over-reacting to a misplaced jacket, at the end of an already historically miserable season. Ivy League athletes quit all the time because they'd rather focus on academics. Three is not a significant number.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Apr 22, 2019 14:14:19 GMT -5
I think the article probably does a poor job of outlining the conditions within the program. But three kids including one of the captains don't quit over silliness. And it wasn't just a lost jacket, it was a coach seemingly way over-reacting to a misplaced jacket, at the end of an already historically miserable season. Ivy League athletes quit all the time because they'd rather focus on academics. Three is not a significant number. In one year? How many have quit from the other seven programs in the past year?
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 22, 2019 14:31:10 GMT -5
You know what i hate? Every time something like this pops up, we assume it's because the kids are "mentally weak" or entitled. That is such a load of crap. I work with students and athletes daily. And something I have found about this generation of kids: they are far less likely to put up with mistreatment, degradation, hypocrisy, and abuse simply because that "is the way things have always been done". We have seen an absolute mass of mistreatment uncovered in relation to coaches/administrations/staff and athletes and, even in the world at large. It's the newer generations that have stepped up, pointed it out, and said no more. And yet, we STILL assume they are the weak and entitled ones. I wouldn't say every time, I totally agree this coach has some old school tendencies and was probably a pretty big d*ck in certain situations. I also work with children, students, and athletes regularly as well and I have found while this generation is not scared to speak up most of them do not know when it is an appropriate time or how to do so with respect. I would not doubt that these kids were more often than not disrespectful to an adult, who albeit may have a rough personality, that they probably didn't care for already on a regular basis that created resentment on both sides - especially the way some of the quotes read in the article and the repeating people being interviewed. There is no doubt this coach could have handled things better but these kids are far from being removed of fault. Kids these days are being raised and treated sometimes as if they are peers with their parents or their friends who have 25-35 years on them, this is fine if you choose to raise your child like this however when they enter adult situations where their parents can not step in to save them, they turn to their actual peers who may not have the maturity to give good advice and know the difference from when they are being immature rather than empowered. Like the saying goes, where there is smoke there is usually fire, and I may come to a different opinion when more information comes out but right now the limited information these articles provide read as if these kids have an agenda after not getting their way and handled it in an inappropriate manner to blast their coach in a negative light. I want to hear the opinions of the girls who do not like this clique or enjoy playing for this coach, because a senior captain who has no personal attachment to this coach and is not going pro most likely does not care about finishing a season that already is not fun, leaving freshman who may be adults by age but children in the mind to take this head on via a senior and sophomore in college writing newspaper articles with attractive quotes lacking context for clicks they could potentially use on resumes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 14:34:36 GMT -5
People act like kids today raise themselves.
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Post by jcvball22 on Apr 22, 2019 15:57:23 GMT -5
You know what i hate? Every time something like this pops up, we assume it's because the kids are "mentally weak" or entitled. That is such a load of crap. I work with students and athletes daily. And something I have found about this generation of kids: they are far less likely to put up with mistreatment, degradation, hypocrisy, and abuse simply because that "is the way things have always been done". We have seen an absolute mass of mistreatment uncovered in relation to coaches/administrations/staff and athletes and, even in the world at large. It's the newer generations that have stepped up, pointed it out, and said no more. And yet, we STILL assume they are the weak and entitled ones. I wouldn't say every time, I totally agree this coach has some old school tendencies and was probably a pretty big d*ck in certain situations. I also work with children, students, and athletes regularly as well and I have found while this generation is not scared to speak up most of them do not know when it is an appropriate time or how to do so with respect. I would not doubt that these kids were more often than not disrespectful to an adult, who albeit may have a rough personality, that they probably didn't care for already on a regular basis that created resentment on both sides - especially the way some of the quotes read in the article and the repeating people being interviewed. There is no doubt this coach could have handled things better but these kids are far from being removed of fault. Kids these days are being raised and treated sometimes as if they are peers with their parents or their friends who have 25-35 years on them, this is fine if you choose to raise your child like this however when they enter adult situations where their parents can not step in to save them, they turn to their actual peers who may not have the maturity to give good advice and know the difference from when they are being immature rather than empowered. Like the saying goes, where there is smoke there is usually fire, and I may come to a different opinion when more information comes out but right now the limited information these articles provide read as if these kids have an agenda after not getting their way and handled it in an inappropriate manner to blast their coach in a negative light. I want to hear the opinions of the girls who do not like this clique or enjoy playing for this coach, because a senior captain who has no personal attachment to this coach and is not going pro most likely does not care about finishing a season that already is not fun, leaving freshman who may be adults by age but children in the mind to take this head on via a senior and sophomore in college writing newspaper articles with attractive quotes lacking context for clicks they could potentially use on resumes. As with anyone, that is a matter of trial and error. They are learning. They aren't waiting until it's convenient or polite. They are raising red flags when they see them and are significantly more trusting of their gut to not let things get so far along as to have harm come to someone. And I doubt being polite is at the top of the priority list when it comes to calling out abuse and hypocrisy. Your cynicism it noted. I will say, I have more insider info on this situation than most. The kids are definitely not wrong in their concerns.
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Post by n00b on Apr 22, 2019 16:09:11 GMT -5
I wouldn't say every time, I totally agree this coach has some old school tendencies and was probably a pretty big d*ck in certain situations. I also work with children, students, and athletes regularly as well and I have found while this generation is not scared to speak up most of them do not know when it is an appropriate time or how to do so with respect. I would not doubt that these kids were more often than not disrespectful to an adult, who albeit may have a rough personality, that they probably didn't care for already on a regular basis that created resentment on both sides - especially the way some of the quotes read in the article and the repeating people being interviewed. There is no doubt this coach could have handled things better but these kids are far from being removed of fault. Kids these days are being raised and treated sometimes as if they are peers with their parents or their friends who have 25-35 years on them, this is fine if you choose to raise your child like this however when they enter adult situations where their parents can not step in to save them, they turn to their actual peers who may not have the maturity to give good advice and know the difference from when they are being immature rather than empowered. Like the saying goes, where there is smoke there is usually fire, and I may come to a different opinion when more information comes out but right now the limited information these articles provide read as if these kids have an agenda after not getting their way and handled it in an inappropriate manner to blast their coach in a negative light. I want to hear the opinions of the girls who do not like this clique or enjoy playing for this coach, because a senior captain who has no personal attachment to this coach and is not going pro most likely does not care about finishing a season that already is not fun, leaving freshman who may be adults by age but children in the mind to take this head on via a senior and sophomore in college writing newspaper articles with attractive quotes lacking context for clicks they could potentially use on resumes. As with anyone, that is a matter of trial and error. They are learning. They aren't waiting until it's convenient or polite. They are raising red flags when they see them and are significantly more trusting of their gut to not let things get so far along as to have harm come to someone. And I doubt being polite is at the top of the priority list when it comes to calling out abuse and hypocrisy. Your cynicism it noted. I will say, I have more insider info on this situation than most. The kids are definitely not wrong in their concerns. Even if all three incidents listed in that article are precisely true, none of that is abuse. Not close in my opinion.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 22, 2019 16:47:40 GMT -5
As with anyone, that is a matter of trial and error. They are learning. They aren't waiting until it's convenient or polite. They are raising red flags when they see them and are significantly more trusting of their gut to not let things get so far along as to have harm come to someone. And I doubt being polite is at the top of the priority list when it comes to calling out abuse and hypocrisy. Your cynicism it noted. I will say, I have more insider info on this situation than most. The kids are definitely not wrong in their concerns. Them being immature, irresponsible, and possibly entitled has everything to do with them learning, not knowing how to appropriately handle an adult situation, or how to responsibly approach the situation with higher ups that are put in place at that school for this exact reason. We are not talking sexual assault or physical abuse, perhaps verbal harassment which we have all alluded to him being wrong, but I see information lacking lots of context that is provided from one side. Being polite and respectful of the way your new coach wants to do something is how you act with maturity and if you have a problem privately meet with him and discuss the issues, going to a sophomore and senior journalists that are foaming at the mouth in a time where shock journalism gets clicks that could advance their careers by this getting traction is immature. Like I keep saying I want to hear more to the story, I want to hear from the group of girls on that team that does not hang with the group who filed reports, what kind of coach is he other than his harsh personality that admittedly he could probably work on, did these girls call a team meeting and get everyone on the same page or request a meeting with their coach and a mediator from the school or assistant athletic director to have an adult conversation out in the open? Based on the information provided there seems to be lots of steps missing in how they handled it in an incredibly poor way, you can call me cynical but it is my opinion of dealing with kids of all ages on a daily basis for almost two decades that this song and dance situation is literally nothing new. Are you not a cynic for believing only the kids, or have you spoken to every girl on the roster, assistant coaches, and seen how many complaints - over whatever the period of time is - to make your opinion? The kids are welcome to have their concerns as it is their right, but based off the information we have this all seems like an in house issue that should have never been publicized because some immature children didn't like how a situation was playing out that was not working in their favor as they prob had been lead to believe by their parents and each other.
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Post by silversurfer on Apr 22, 2019 17:14:37 GMT -5
As with anyone, that is a matter of trial and error. They are learning. They aren't waiting until it's convenient or polite. They are raising red flags when they see them and are significantly more trusting of their gut to not let things get so far along as to have harm come to someone. And I doubt being polite is at the top of the priority list when it comes to calling out abuse and hypocrisy. Your cynicism it noted. I will say, I have more insider info on this situation than most. The kids are definitely not wrong in their concerns. Them being immature, irresponsible, and possibly entitled has everything to do with them learning, not knowing how to appropriately handle an adult situation, or how to responsibly approach the situation with higher ups that are put in place at that school for this exact reason. We are not talking sexual assault or physical abuse, perhaps verbal harassment which we have all alluded to him being wrong, but I see information lacking lots of context that is provided from one side. Being polite and respectful of the way your new coach wants to do something is how you act with maturity and if you have a problem privately meet with him and discuss the issues, going to a sophomore and senior journalists that are foaming at the mouth in a time where shock journalism gets clicks that could advance their careers by this getting traction is immature. Like I keep saying I want to hear more to the story, I want to hear from the group of girls on that team that does not hang with the group who filed reports, what kind of coach is he other than his harsh personality that admittedly he could probably work on, did these girls call a team meeting and get everyone on the same page or request a meeting with their coach and a mediator from the school or assistant athletic director to have an adult conversation out in the open? Based on the information provided there seems to be lots of steps missing in how they handled it in an incredibly poor way, you can call me cynical but it is my opinion of dealing with kids of all ages on a daily basis for almost two decades that this song and dance situation is literally nothing new. Are you not a cynic for believing only the kids, or have you spoken to every girl on the roster, assistant coaches, and seen how many complaints - over whatever the period of time is - to make your opinion? The kids are welcome to have their concerns as it is their right, but based off the information we have this all seems like an in house issue that should have never been publicized because some immature children didn't like how a situation was playing out that was not working in their favor as they prob had been lead to believe by their parents and each other. COME ON. Did you miss the part where they filed 8 different formal complaints according to department guidelines? And how do you know they didn’t talk to the coach privately?
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Post by n00b on Apr 22, 2019 18:06:08 GMT -5
COME ON. Did you miss the part where they filed 8 different formal complaints according to department guidelines? And how do you know they didn’t talk to the coach privately? Do we think the three stories that were in the paper were the most damning or the most tame of the complaints? I would guess they would choose to share what they viewed as the most serious. None of those were fireable offenses, so the university didn't fire him. They DID go through a mediation process to try to better the situation and the players seemed to believe that anything less than a firing wasn't good enough so they took an internal issue and went public. Their story didn't come close to winning me over. That's the risk you run when you go public.
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Post by silversurfer on Apr 22, 2019 19:22:04 GMT -5
COME ON. Did you miss the part where they filed 8 different formal complaints according to department guidelines? And how do you know they didn’t talk to the coach privately? Do we think the three stories that were in the paper were the most damning or the most tame of the complaints? I would guess they would choose to share what they viewed as the most serious. None of those were fireable offenses, so the university didn't fire him. They DID go through a mediation process to try to better the situation and the players seemed to believe that anything less than a firing wasn't good enough so they took an internal issue and went public. Their story didn't come close to winning me over. That's the risk you run when you go public. They went through a process that was supposed to outline a course of action, whether it was the one the team wanted or not. The process didn’t do that and the administration didn’t say anything about any of it. THAT is a problem.
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Post by ironhammer on Apr 22, 2019 19:43:49 GMT -5
Do we think the three stories that were in the paper were the most damning or the most tame of the complaints? I would guess they would choose to share what they viewed as the most serious. None of those were fireable offenses, so the university didn't fire him. They DID go through a mediation process to try to better the situation and the players seemed to believe that anything less than a firing wasn't good enough so they took an internal issue and went public. Their story didn't come close to winning me over. That's the risk you run when you go public. They went through a process that was supposed to outline a course of action, whether it was the one the team wanted or not. The process didn’t do that and the administration didn’t say anything about any of it. THAT is a problem. Maybe they didn't do anything because they found nothing to warrant action. Not condoning the coach's action, but in this day and age, if there was clear abuse, the administrators would be forced to take action whether they like it or not. The fact there hasn't been any suggests the students' complaints may be questionable.
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Post by ironhammer on Apr 22, 2019 19:48:48 GMT -5
Them being immature, irresponsible, and possibly entitled has everything to do with them learning, not knowing how to appropriately handle an adult situation, or how to responsibly approach the situation with higher ups that are put in place at that school for this exact reason. We are not talking sexual assault or physical abuse, perhaps verbal harassment which we have all alluded to him being wrong, but I see information lacking lots of context that is provided from one side. Being polite and respectful of the way your new coach wants to do something is how you act with maturity and if you have a problem privately meet with him and discuss the issues, going to a sophomore and senior journalists that are foaming at the mouth in a time where shock journalism gets clicks that could advance their careers by this getting traction is immature. Like I keep saying I want to hear more to the story, I want to hear from the group of girls on that team that does not hang with the group who filed reports, what kind of coach is he other than his harsh personality that admittedly he could probably work on, did these girls call a team meeting and get everyone on the same page or request a meeting with their coach and a mediator from the school or assistant athletic director to have an adult conversation out in the open? Based on the information provided there seems to be lots of steps missing in how they handled it in an incredibly poor way, you can call me cynical but it is my opinion of dealing with kids of all ages on a daily basis for almost two decades that this song and dance situation is literally nothing new. Are you not a cynic for believing only the kids, or have you spoken to every girl on the roster, assistant coaches, and seen how many complaints - over whatever the period of time is - to make your opinion? The kids are welcome to have their concerns as it is their right, but based off the information we have this all seems like an in house issue that should have never been publicized because some immature children didn't like how a situation was playing out that was not working in their favor as they prob had been lead to believe by their parents and each other. COME ON. Did you miss the part where they filed 8 different formal complaints according to department guidelines? And how do you know they didn’t talk to the coach privately? How do you know the students DID talk to the coach privately? And it is not a simple matter of the number of complaints. It is whether those complaints have any basis in fact. Whether there are any a) evidence to back-up their claims and b) and whether the claims constitute abuse according to regulations and legal statute. If you can't satisfy both, then it doesn't matter how many complaints are made.
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