|
Post by pepperbrooks on May 13, 2019 12:52:46 GMT -5
bigfan Reiterating this question. Can you provide an example of how this thread harms someone who is innocent? RE: Wade from Hawaii How do you know he's innocent? I don't know if he is or not. But information is always good. The information is that he's under investigation or whatever.
|
|
|
Post by bigfan on May 13, 2019 13:11:26 GMT -5
This thread serves no purpose. That doesn't answer the question. You don't think that people reading and posting on VolleyTalk shouldn't be interested in who appears on this list? If you don't think it serves a purpose, don't read it. If you think this thread should be deleted for causing "harm to innocent people," provide how you came to that conclusion. There are many other threads which "serve no purpose" from my point-of-view, but that doesn't mean others aren't interested in it. Thousands of cities post on 'local crime news" web-sites every day who is arrested for various offences from dui, to murder, to wife beating. Do you spend hours a day perusing such web-sites for self satisfaction that you are not among the wretched? rick Butler has been for years been thumbing his nose at the legal system and getting away with it.
|
|
|
Post by ineedajob on May 13, 2019 13:27:20 GMT -5
That doesn't answer the question. You don't think that people reading and posting on VolleyTalk shouldn't be interested in who appears on this list? If you don't think it serves a purpose, don't read it. If you think this thread should be deleted for causing "harm to innocent people," provide how you came to that conclusion. There are many other threads which "serve no purpose" from my point-of-view, but that doesn't mean others aren't interested in it. Thousands of cities post on 'local crime news" web-sites every day who is arrested for various offences from dui, to murder, to wife beating. Do you spend hours a day perusing such web-sites for self satisfaction that you are not among the wretched? rick Butler has been for years been thumbing his nose at the legal system and getting away with it. Why are you still avoiding the question? I do not, but if there was a news story or investigation like that with someone related to volleyball, I think it has a place to be discussed here.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 14:01:11 GMT -5
Well your OP says you “think it's important for our community to be updated about coaches that violate the governing codes of conduct”. And since some people on that list are, for example, “Pending Investigation U.S. Center for SafeSport” and have not been proven to violate governing codes of conduct I would say if it’s not harmful it is, at the very least, misleading. I can edit the OP as I have done several times already to clarify that point, but in Coach Wade's case, it did not harm him in ways that are apparent to us as outsiders. I know I'll catch some flak from die hard Hawaii fans, but the list is there for a good reason, give pause to those of us that are unaware, and serve notice to those that pretend to be unaware.
|
|
|
Post by atticus on May 14, 2019 9:19:08 GMT -5
Is there any way to know more detail, like location or club affiliation? Some names are fairly common and it would be helpful to have another layer of detail before assuming the person’s identity.
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on May 14, 2019 9:51:37 GMT -5
Well your OP says you “think it's important for our community to be updated about coaches that violate the governing codes of conduct”. And since some people on that list are, for example, “Pending Investigation U.S. Center for SafeSport” and have not been proven to violate governing codes of conduct I would say if it’s not harmful it is, at the very least, misleading. What is misleading about the statement "Pending Investigation" or "Suspended Pending Investigation"?
|
|
|
Post by n00b on May 14, 2019 9:57:56 GMT -5
Unrelated to any specific coach, I see it as a major issue that these coaches are indefinitely suspended for the duration of an investigation that takes over a year.
Here's the start date of all of the 'under investigation' suspensions:
Feb 18, 2018 May 3, 2018 Mar 1, 2018 Sep 13, 2018 Sep 4, 2018 Sep 5, 2018
If evidence can't be uncovered in a year, I find it hard to justify keeping people on this list.
|
|
|
Post by Hawk Attack on May 14, 2019 10:42:50 GMT -5
Well your OP says you “think it's important for our community to be updated about coaches that violate the governing codes of conduct”. And since some people on that list are, for example, “Pending Investigation U.S. Center for SafeSport” and have not been proven to violate governing codes of conduct I would say if it’s not harmful it is, at the very least, misleading. What is misleading about the statement "Pending Investigation" or "Suspended Pending Investigation"? ? I’m saying the OP is misleading.
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on May 14, 2019 10:58:10 GMT -5
What is misleading about the statement "Pending Investigation" or "Suspended Pending Investigation"? ? I’m saying the OP is misleading. I think I understood that--I thought that your suggestion that the original poster was being misleading was a bit off-base. The source of those statements is the official USAV website, and it lists the official status of cases as far as we know (or to the extent they have been updated.) The names wouldn't be there if there was not an allegation/complaint of misconduct. The assumption of guilt or innocence, and the slow pace of resolving the cases, are problems in their own right perhaps, but those are issues separate from the posting of the list in this thread, or at least, they exist regardless of the list being posted in a thread.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on May 14, 2019 11:36:29 GMT -5
Unrelated to any specific coach, I see it as a major issue that these coaches are indefinitely suspended for the duration of an investigation that takes over a year. Here's the start date of all of the 'under investigation' suspensions: Feb 18, 2018 May 3, 2018 Mar 1, 2018 Sep 13, 2018 Sep 4, 2018 Sep 5, 2018 If evidence can't be uncovered in a year, I find it hard to justify keeping people on this list. I would imagine when the statute of limitations expires for the allegations those folks could petition for their status to change. In CA the statute of limitations for some sex crimes appears to be 10 years. There must be some due process involved, but at the same time, just because they haven't completed their investigation in a year doesn't mean case closed. But this isn't a criminal process where the accused are presumed innocent until proven guilty. For some people on this list, volleyball is/was their livelihood. For people to be unable to coach for such a long period of time while they sit in the purgatory of 'pending investigation' seems unjust. Also, there is no statute of limitations on SafeSport investigations.
|
|
|
Post by Hawk Attack on May 14, 2019 11:36:38 GMT -5
? I’m saying the OP is misleading. I think I understood that--I thought that your suggestion that the original poster was being misleading was a bit off-base. The source of those statements is the official USAV website, and it lists the official status of cases as far as we know (or to the extent they have been updated.) The names wouldn't be there if there was not an allegation/complaint of misconduct. The assumption of guilt or innocence, and the slow pace of resolving the cases, are problems in their own right perhaps, but those are issues separate from the posting of the list in this thread, or at least, they exist regardless of the list being posted in a thread. I guess I just don’t view those problems as separate then.
|
|
|
Post by itsallrelative on May 14, 2019 13:04:22 GMT -5
But this isn't a criminal process where the accused are presumed innocent until proven guilty. For some people on this list, volleyball is/was their livelihood. For people to be unable to coach for such a long period of time while they sit in the purgatory of 'pending investigation' seems unjust. Also, there is no statute of limitations on SafeSport investigations. Agreed. What legal recourse do these accused have? A single season to complete an investigation hardly seems excessive to me, but at what point do you say enough is enough? Surely SafeSport has more than just accusations to act on before adding somebody to that list. Isn't part of the problem the backlog of cases that built up in the time before safesport was around? A lot of those investigations appear to deal with incidents from long, long ago....which make the investigations more difficult and time consuming.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 7:18:49 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 26, 2019 20:09:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by bigfan on May 28, 2019 18:08:04 GMT -5
bigfan Reiterating this question. Can you provide an example of how this thread harms someone who is innocent? I have been here a long time and this is the most idiotic question I have ever read on Volleytalk. Accusing someone who is innocent of a sexual crime is horrendous. Tawana Bradley destroyed people with her nonsense.
|
|