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Post by mikegarrison on May 22, 2019 19:46:53 GMT -5
I think they did plenty of that, actually. I think people just overlooked certain aspects of her character. For eight seasons she's been BURNING PEOPLE ALIVE and everybody ignored it because they were all "bad people" -- slavers, barbarians, traitors, etc. But this was a part of her character, and she showed it over and over again, all the way back to when she was perfectly fine with having her brother killed by molten gold. I don't see why burning someone alive is really any worse than a slow painful death from getting stabbed in the gut. Or strangulation via poison. Or plenty of other manners of death. And of course it makes a difference whether the people being killed are bad people, or innocent victims. Really? Who decided they were "bad people"? Dani decided. There was no court, no trial, no due process. In each case Dani just decided these other people would burn. So what was really different at King's Landing? Dani decided the entire city was guilty, so Dani burned them all.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 19:52:40 GMT -5
I don't think their guilt entered into it. I think we need to believe what she said: "let it be fear." It sure seemed to me she made the decision to burn the entire city to prove a point. Sort of like nuking Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Or many other examples throughout our history.
They just didn't matter, except as an example of what she could do.
The other thing is that she had good reason to be paranoid. Varys had tried to poison her. Others were also plotting against her. I would have preferred to see a different outcome, but the writers did write themselves into a corner -- and it started with the conflict with Sansa.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 22, 2019 19:54:48 GMT -5
Again, Jon's resurrection, like Dondarion's, was for a reason. As it turned out, it seems the only reason was so that he could be there to kill Dany. Say what? 1) The Red Woman believed it was for a reason. That doesn't necessarily mean it was for a reason. She believed a lot of things that turned out to be incorrect. Maybe, somehow, she just had the power to resurrect people, and she mistakenly attributed it to "the Lord Of Light". 2) And if it was for a reason, are you sure you know what that reason is? Maybe the reason Jon was resurrected was so that Arya would choose to return to Winterfell instead of going to kill Cersei. Remember, she was at the crossroads to go to King's Landing, but changed her direction when she heard that Jon was now King In The North at Winterfell.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 19:59:28 GMT -5
Don't you think the resolution should have brought more clarity to all of these issues, answered more questions? The more I think about it, the bigger mess it seems. Granted, it was not an easy story to tell. Martin's lack of progress is proof of that.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 22, 2019 20:06:54 GMT -5
I don't think their guilt entered into it. I think we need to believe what she said: "let it be fear." It sure seemed to me she made the decision to burn the entire city to prove a point. Sort of like nuking Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Or many other examples throughout our history. Yes, this is part of it. But I don't think she said to herself, "I'm going to burn these innocent people just to make a statement." She also repeatedly argued against Tyrion's claims that the people were innocent. She asked why they did not rebel against Cersei. Why did the people flock to shelter with Cersei rather than acknowledge Dani as their rightful Queen? Tyrion, who had lived in King's Landing for years, saw them as little people who had no choice who the King or Queen was, and sought safety behind the walls because they had no other defenses. But Dani remembered other cities, where the slave populations had risen and fought against their rulers in her name. Her experience was that if they refused to rise and fight against Cersei then they were part of the problem, not part of the solution. In some ways Dani respected their agency and free will more than Tyrion did, but that also meant she was able to see them as willing enemies rather than helpless sheeple. Burning them all was making a statement about her resolve, just like burning the Tarlys had been. But it was also making a statement that she would not forgive anyone who did not take her side in the conflict. Tyrion (and I dare say, most of the audience) saw them as innocent victims. (We were supposed to see them that way, especially from Arya's point of view.) She saw them as people who (like all people) had free will and who had used their free will to choose to side with Cersei instead of her.
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Post by jayj79 on May 22, 2019 20:08:10 GMT -5
Don't you think the resolution should have brought more clarity to all of these issues, answered more questions? no. A Song of Ice and Fire was never going to be something that ended up without unanswered questions or one that would end with "and they all lived happily ever after"
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Post by mikegarrison on May 22, 2019 20:08:43 GMT -5
Don't you think the resolution should have brought more clarity to all of these issues, answered more questions? The more I think about it, the bigger mess it seems. Granted, it was not an easy story to tell. Martin's lack of progress is proof of that. Stories that tie up every little thread with a nice, neat bow are boring stories. We're still talking about this one precisely because they didn't answer every question with a neat and simple answer.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 20:12:09 GMT -5
I agree. But stories that end up with so many unanswered questions or so many different interpretations are often poorly written.
Open-ended, I can see. A resolution that doesn't explain much of what happened before? Not a fan. I don't need EVERY question answered. But I sure would have appreciated more. Hell, the King we end up with is still basically a cipher. One they left out of an entire season.
Speaking of which, the previous Three-Eyed-Raven was old as dirt. How long is Bran going to live?
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Post by jayj79 on May 22, 2019 20:15:49 GMT -5
But Dani remembered other cities, where the slave populations had risen and fought against their rulers in her name. Her experience was that if they refused to rise and fight against Cersei then they were part of the problem, not part of the solution. which of those cities rose and fought against their rulers without Dani and/or her agents (the Unsullied, Daario, her Dragons) getting the ball rolling? None of them, that I can recall. She didn't give the people in KL a chance. They were ringing the bells, which very well could have been the start of them rising up (Cersei sure as hell didn't order the bells to be rung), but Dani destroyed them anyway.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 20:15:56 GMT -5
I'm going to assume that the May 26th show will at least give us some insight into what Benioff and Weiss thought they were doing.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 22, 2019 20:28:11 GMT -5
But Dani remembered other cities, where the slave populations had risen and fought against their rulers in her name. Her experience was that if they refused to rise and fight against Cersei then they were part of the problem, not part of the solution. which of those cities rose and fought against their rulers without Dani and/or her agents (the Unsullied, Daario, her Dragons) getting the ball rolling? None of them, that I can recall. Well, she sure had already gotten the ball rolling in King's Landing, so that doesn't resolve the issue.
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Post by jayj79 on May 22, 2019 20:32:57 GMT -5
which of those cities rose and fought against their rulers without Dani and/or her agents (the Unsullied, Daario, her Dragons) getting the ball rolling? None of them, that I can recall. Well, she sure had already gotten the ball rolling in King's Landing, so that doesn't resolve the issue. she never addressed the people of Kings Landing they way she did in the slavers bay cities. as far as the common folk knew, she was an invader leading a host of Dothraki savages, ruthless mercenaries, and a fire breathing dragon to pillage and destroy their city. (guess they were right on that one)
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 20:33:46 GMT -5
I'd love to see some deleted scenes and alternate endings. I know some people are disappointed in the last season especially since we waited such a long time for it. But I think some people lose perspective that the actors and actresses do have other obligations to attend to and things to film. The other alternative would be to wait even longer or replace actors or actresses for main characters. I just hope the spinoffs are as good as the books they're about. I do hope GRRM will finish.
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Post by XAsstCoach on May 22, 2019 20:33:56 GMT -5
I do think the actors did a pretty amazing job with what they were given. I honestly feel that Peter Dinklage should win an award for his portrayal of Tyrion in season 8. Thought he did an amazing job of it....just moreso than previous seasons.
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Post by XAsstCoach on May 22, 2019 20:38:09 GMT -5
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