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Post by azvb on May 25, 2019 13:04:07 GMT -5
The only for sure locks for Tokyo are Foluke, Kim, and Larson. I also think Krob is 95% lock and at this point I would say Courtney has above a 75% chance to go as she's the only lib that we have doing the job (although we haven't seen lake) We saw a glimpse of lake today, I wouldn’t put her up there with Courtney, I think right now I would take Courtney as the starter and put KRob as on OH who will takeover libero if Courtney were to get injured. The benefit of Courtney is her reach, she doesn’t have to work as hard as lake does to get good contact on the ball. Lake is tiny!! It prevents her from making controlled digs on some of those balls hit outside her body, but we haven’t seen her in the jersey yet so I’m not saying it won’t happen. 5’8” looks “tiny” next to the rest of the team. However, Mary Lake towers over me by 3-4 inches 😐😐.
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Post by wishinwestcoastvb on May 25, 2019 13:11:32 GMT -5
Lake is probably performing better in practice than the other liberos there. All American awards don’t mean anything once you get all of the All Americans together in the same gym.
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Post by donut on May 25, 2019 13:24:07 GMT -5
Did you even read the OP before cherry-picking an argument with me? Gavin claimed that Lake would struggle on the NT because in college, she isn't currently "predominantly considered the best" ( the best implies singular, btw). I'm assuming he thinks Hentz is "predominantly considered the best" at her position. None of the current NT starters, IMO, were considered "predominantly the best" at their position during their NCAA days, except for Akinradewo. I never negated their talents or that they were great players, but in 2008, I don't think Larson was considered the best OH in the country (that was probably Hodge). In 2015 (Drews senior year), you had Aiyana Whitney, Nikki Taylor, Kelsie Payne, Kadie Rolfzen as "better" RS hitters. Do I need to go on? The fact that these players are starting defeats his argument. That was my point. Did you not read the post that you quoted two posts ago? He never said that they had to be the best in college to end up on the NT. He did say that is would be hard to make the NT when you are CURRENTLY in college and not the best in college. Your whole "the best" argument is also apples to oranges when talking about liberos vs pin hitters. A roster needs 3-5 solid pin hitters. A roster needs 1 libero, and either a back-up or a pin that can fill in as a back up. Looking at who will play for the actual NT you have KRob who can play libero if you don't have anyone better, or who can be your backup. So you're looking for 1 libero to fill that spot. If you are going with experience and current ability, you take Courtney (as you yourself predicted in a post). He is saying that IF you decide to value youth and future potential, you would need someone that is far above and beyond everyone else in those categories and yet Hentz is considered better by a large number of people. FWIW, Hentz and White were both 1st team AA last year and Lake was 2nd team. Why go with the 3rd best collegiate libero for the one NT spot? His posts are a little hard to read, but no I didn’t miss the “currently” part. Again, if being “the best” in the NCAA doesn’t normally translate to international success, why would that be the primary selection criteria? What happens in the NT gym is completely separate from NCAA play. To say Lake is going to have a hard time getting on the NT because Hentz “is better than her” in NCAA play disregards the differences between the NT and NCAA, and also the history of player selections by the NT, which doesn’t tend to line up with necessarily just inserting [best NCAA player at position X] into [starting NT slot]. FTR - Karch is pretty critical of Hentz’s style of play. I don’t think he would say she’s the best libero in the NCAA.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 13:40:00 GMT -5
? Larson was a two-time First-Teamer and a national champion. Adams was a two-time First-Teamer, and played in three final fours and a national championship match (I think). Dixon and Gibbemeyer were also each First-Team All-Americans. Murphy was the NFOY and a four-time All-American. Drews was a Second-Team All-American. If they weren't considered the "best" at their positions in college, what is your definition of "best?" Did you even read the OP before cherry-picking an argument with me? Gavin claimed that Lake would struggle on the NT because in college, she isn't currently "predominantly considered the best" ( the best implies singular, btw). I'm assuming he thinks Hentz is "predominantly considered the best" at her position. None of the current NT starters, IMO, were considered "predominantly the best" at their position during their NCAA days, except for Akinradewo. I never negated their talents or that they were great players, but in 2008, I don't think Larson was considered the best OH in the country (that was probably Hodge). In 2015 (Drews senior year), you had Aiyana Whitney, Nikki Taylor, Kelsie Payne, Kadie Rolfzen as "better" RS hitters. Do I need to go on? The fact that these players are starting defeats his argument. That was my point. It was a bad argument on his part, but your attempt to “defeat” it by offering Larson (my god) and a host of other First-Team All-Americans as evidence was equally flawed, IMO. That’s all.
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Post by eazy on May 25, 2019 13:51:54 GMT -5
Did you not read the post that you quoted two posts ago? He never said that they had to be the best in college to end up on the NT. He did say that is would be hard to make the NT when you are CURRENTLY in college and not the best in college. Your whole "the best" argument is also apples to oranges when talking about liberos vs pin hitters. A roster needs 3-5 solid pin hitters. A roster needs 1 libero, and either a back-up or a pin that can fill in as a back up. Looking at who will play for the actual NT you have KRob who can play libero if you don't have anyone better, or who can be your backup. So you're looking for 1 libero to fill that spot. If you are going with experience and current ability, you take Courtney (as you yourself predicted in a post). He is saying that IF you decide to value youth and future potential, you would need someone that is far above and beyond everyone else in those categories and yet Hentz is considered better by a large number of people. FWIW, Hentz and White were both 1st team AA last year and Lake was 2nd team. Why go with the 3rd best collegiate libero for the one NT spot? His posts are a little hard to read, but no I didn’t miss the “currently” part. Again, if being “the best” in the NCAA doesn’t normally translate to international success, why would that be the primary selection criteria? What happens in the NT gym is completely separate from NCAA play. To say Lake is going to have a hard time getting on the NT because Hentz “is better than her” in NCAA play disregards the differences between the NT and NCAA, and also the history of player selections by the NT, which doesn’t tend to line up with necessarily just inserting [best NCAA player at position X] into [starting NT slot]. FTR - Karch is pretty critical of Hentz’s style of play. I don’t think he would say she’s the best libero in the NCAA. I can appreciate the concept that it takes different things to be successful in international play vs NCAA. If we were talking about an undersized hitter that finds ways to score in the NCAA that wouldn't work internationally I would be all on board. I would say libero attributes that are successful in the NCAA are similar to the attributes that are successful internationally. Again, that's not to say that someone cannot be the 3rd best collegiate player in their year, and then develop into the best international player later. But to think that she is currently ranked as the 3rd best libero in the NCAA by whatever committee the AVCA has chosen, and at the same time be considered in the best 2 liberos at the NT level speaks more to Karch's differences with every other successful coach than it does about the nuances of the different levels.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 13:59:31 GMT -5
His posts are a little hard to read, but no I didn’t miss the “currently” part. Again, if being “the best” in the NCAA doesn’t normally translate to international success, why would that be the primary selection criteria? What happens in the NT gym is completely separate from NCAA play. To say Lake is going to have a hard time getting on the NT because Hentz “is better than her” in NCAA play disregards the differences between the NT and NCAA, and also the history of player selections by the NT, which doesn’t tend to line up with necessarily just inserting [best NCAA player at position X] into [starting NT slot]. FTR - Karch is pretty critical of Hentz’s style of play. I don’t think he would say she’s the best libero in the NCAA. I can appreciate the concept that it takes different things to be successful in international play vs NCAA. If we were talking about an undersized hitter that finds ways to score in the NCAA that wouldn't work internationally I would be all on board. I would say libero attributes that are successful in the NCAA are similar to the attributes that are successful internationally. Again, that's not to say that someone cannot be the 3rd best collegiate player in their year, and then develop into the best international player later. But to think that she is currently ranked as the 3rd best libero in the NCAA by whatever committee the AVCA has chosen, and at the same time be considered in the best 2 liberos at the NT level speaks more to Karch's differences with every other successful coach than it does about the nuances of the different levels. This post is really bad. Is this satire
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Post by Hawk Attack on May 25, 2019 15:28:03 GMT -5
Any Japanese player, literally any of them... regardless of position, could be our libero.
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Post by eazy on May 25, 2019 16:57:37 GMT -5
I can appreciate the concept that it takes different things to be successful in international play vs NCAA. If we were talking about an undersized hitter that finds ways to score in the NCAA that wouldn't work internationally I would be all on board. I would say libero attributes that are successful in the NCAA are similar to the attributes that are successful internationally. Again, that's not to say that someone cannot be the 3rd best collegiate player in their year, and then develop into the best international player later. But to think that she is currently ranked as the 3rd best libero in the NCAA by whatever committee the AVCA has chosen, and at the same time be considered in the best 2 liberos at the NT level speaks more to Karch's differences with every other successful coach than it does about the nuances of the different levels. This post is really bad. Is this satire Please explain what is so bad.
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Post by Hawk Attack on May 25, 2019 17:04:57 GMT -5
This post is really bad. Is this satire Please explain what is so bad. This sentence, “I would say libero attributes that are successful in the NCAA are similar to the attributes that are successful internationally” is fairly disqualifying. The USA has shown to be pretty resoundingly bad at developing 1st contact on par with international competition. And stat-padded AVCA AA picks for liberos are probably positionally the least reliable for prediction for success after college.
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Post by stanfordvb on May 25, 2019 21:45:18 GMT -5
Lake is probably performing better in practice than the other liberos there. All American awards don’t mean anything once you get all of the All Americans together in the same gym. So you think lake does better in practice but not as good in games ?
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Post by wishinwestcoastvb on May 25, 2019 21:53:18 GMT -5
Lake is probably performing better in practice than the other liberos there. All American awards don’t mean anything once you get all of the All Americans together in the same gym. So you think lake does better in practice but not as good in games ? No I’m saying that she is already talented and deserves the spot to be there. Second, she would be more than capable to play a game, but how she performed in practice must allow her to be on the VNL roster
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Post by stanfordvb on May 25, 2019 21:54:44 GMT -5
So you think lake does better in practice but not as good in games ? No I’m saying that she is already talented and deserves the spot to be there. Second, she would be more than capable to play a game, but how she performed in practice must allow her to be on the VNL roster Oh now I get it hahha
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