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Post by bealzabubba on May 30, 2019 13:57:30 GMT -5
As usual, this may interest only me. My son tried out, and we went into the HP tryouts with more than a few assumptions - he's too young (the age groups are two year "bands"), and his position will have super tough competition from older boys, and we're in the most competitive region (SCVA), so ... Anyway, the rosters have been posted on USAV, so I did a little analysis to see if my biases were accurate, or not. NOTES: This is limited to Select (2003 and 2004 birth years), and the underlying data only reflects whether a kid accepted the offer, not whether he was offered ( EDIT: for most, this will be between $2k and $2.5k, it's not cheap; I think this comes into play heavily with A3, but... can't say for sure.). It also doesn't take into account the regional / national level A1 selection (SCVA's A1 tryouts are this Sunday, for example). First, by grad year (which doesn't really tell you when the kid was born - in my area, redshirting kindergarteners is very, very common and unrelated to sports, EDIT: I don't know how that plays out beyond my particular little region of LA): A1 A2 A3 Total % a1 % a2 % a3 %
2020 0 1 0 1 0% 0% 1% 0%
2021 42 34 28 104 45% 68% 46% 30%
2022 19 36 52 107 47% 31% 49% 55%
2023 1 3 13 17 7% 2% 4% 14%
2024 0 0 1 1 0% 0% 0% 1%
I see a bias towards the older boys in A1, and a bias toward the younger boys for A3, which skews the overall % due to the greater number of participants (A1: 62; A2: 74; A3: 94) Next, by position: A1 A2 A3 Total % a1 % a2 % a3 %
MB 15 21 15 51 22% 24% 28% 16%
OH 19 17 26 62 27% 31% 23% 28%
SET 10 13 20 43 19% 16% 18% 21%
LIB 10 13 22 45 20% 16% 18% 23%
OPP 8 10 11 29 13% 13% 14% 12%
Note that there's a slight skew in OH's for A1, and a slight skew for MB's in A2, whereas A3 has more setters and liberos. EDIT: I kind of understand these but - Oppo remains the lowest - thoughts on why? Next, this is breakdown by region. Candidly, I found the Great Lakes results for A1/A2 surprising, and I really, really expected more SoCal boys - in some senses, this is objective proof that great players can come from anywhere. For A3, GL makes a lot of sense - A3 is in Chicago this year, and I personally know several boys that turned it down. Last year's A3 had, I kid you not, 5 hours on a bus to from the facility/hotel every day. Moreover, a parent basically has to go, so it's more expensive, generally, than A1/A2 for those not "local" to Chicago (Contra: see Chesapeake region). By Region A1 A2 A3 Total % a1 % a2 % a3 %
Great Lakes 11 21 26 58 25% 18% 28% 28%
So California 11 10 8 29 13% 18% 14% 9%
No California 6 8 9 23 10% 10% 11% 10%
Western Empire 6 6 2 14 6% 10% 8% 2%
Florida 5 1 7 13 6% 8% 1% 7%
Garden Empire 2 4 5 11 5% 3% 5% 5%
Chesapeake 0 0 10 10 4% 0% 0% 11%
If anyone has a specific question (i.e. how many middles from GL that graduate in 2021), I can probably dice the numbers, but I have no inherent interest in that personally.  |
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Post by coug94 on May 30, 2019 18:44:01 GMT -5
Good info thank you for putting together all these stats.
My two boys also at SCVA tried out and the process was sort of a disaster in my opinion. Next year they will both be at the older age band which will help.
They really should just see what teams these kids are on - 1s, 2s etc, and just assigns then to a court and move up the clearly better players and move down to lower courts the lesser players.
If you’re a hitter you’re totally at the mercy today of the setter that is in your group and if he just sets his friends and the US Jr. returning players like I saw. They just kept setting the clearly #1 player and that doesn’t really do any good to evaluate anyone else.
Not sour grapes, but as our Club Director called it as a “Cattle Call” which is true. Not sure we’ll go out again it was a waste.
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Post by wilbur on May 30, 2019 19:19:04 GMT -5
Good info thank you for putting together all these stats. My two boys also at SCVA tried out and the process was sort of a disaster in my opinion. Next year they will both be at the older age band which will help. They really should just see what teams these kids are on - 1s, 2s etc, and just assigns then to a court and move up the clearly better players and move down to lower courts the lesser players. If you’re a hitter you’re totally at the mercy today of the setter that is in your group and if he just sets his friends and the US Jr. returning players like I saw. They just kept setting the clearly #1 player and that doesn’t really do any good to evaluate anyone else. Not sour grapes, but as our Club Director called it as a “Cattle Call” which is true. Not sure we’ll go out again it was a waste. don't forget the cool teeshirt! If your son is a talent and your club director agrees and has some connections to USAV HP, ask your director to phone in a favor to have the evaluators make sure to look. The program is set up to identify future national team players and coaches first... and second, to train lower tier players and fund the program doing it. As imperfect as the system feels to parents and some coaches, I don't think they are missing any TJ Defalcos that come through the door. Also, as I understand, if your sons are in the younger side of the age bands they are going to stay that way for all their teen years. 2003 and 2004 DOB will always play together, 2004 will never play with 2005. Think this is based on FIVB org. |
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Post by CoastalVB on May 30, 2019 20:03:56 GMT -5
It's a pipeline for the national team. Most of the guys on the national team came through it. It also provides good coaching and competition at all levels. Guys do move up levels and pass other players.
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Post by bealzabubba on May 30, 2019 20:42:36 GMT -5
Good info thank you for putting together all these stats. My two boys also at SCVA tried out and the process was sort of a disaster in my opinion. Next year they will both be at the older age band which will help. . don't forget the cool teeshirt! .. Also, as I understand, if your sons are in the younger side of the age bands they are going to stay that way for all their teen years. 2003 and 2004 DOB will always play together, 2004 will never play with 2005. Think this is based on FIVB org. - Always the same age band, so 03-04 are always together - definitely based upon FIVB. "USAV Guy" at our tryouts told us if we didn't like that, well, we screwed up when we planned their birth (it was said much better, with a definitive lilt of humor.) The teeshirts do rock. Only $110! (I got him the blue, with the donation to para-volley). Our CD warned us about the "cattle call" and "money grab" aspects, as did several other parents that tried out the prior year, so... we were prepped for it, and decided to do it for the experience of the tryout. And from that perspective, it was a good one. For the older boys (Youth - 01/02 babies), one of the coaches asked what club, and put all the boys not from a big club (SCVC, 949, BB, etc.) on a "lower" court, if you will. None of those boys moved, and I *heard* the coaches weren't looking at the lower court. We had, I think, a much better experience overall than you did - from my kid's court perspective, it appeared that they were deliberately trying to move the setters around to avoid what you describe, and he got to meet and talk to some of the boys he'd played against earlier in the day, and that was a positive regardless. I got to meet/speak with a lovely lady from Miami. My gripe on the setters was they kept setting to the right, to show off their backset skills. Overall, my kid had a blast - it was 3 hours of playing around with very good/excellent players, and he was bummed when they stopped it early. We're going to do the SCVA tryouts for the same reasons - his experience was good, regardless of the outcome. |
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Post by coug94 on May 30, 2019 22:31:46 GMT -5
We did the second tryout not on the day of a tournament and it was at night, cold so probably much different.
I’m thinking of the SCVA HP tryout also, for same reasons. And even if selected I’m not paying $2,500 per kid.
Both are OH so adjusting to multiple setters is a challenge too.
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Post by teamjess on May 30, 2019 22:54:32 GMT -5
We did the second tryout not on the day of a tournament and it was at night, cold so probably much different. I’m thinking of the SCVA HP tryout also, for same reasons. And even if selected I’m not paying $2,500 per kid. Both are OH so adjusting to multiple setters is a challenge too. SCVA IS $2500 this year? 😳😳😳 |
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Post by bealzabubba on May 31, 2019 0:41:55 GMT -5
We did the second tryout not on the day of a tournament and it was at night, cold so probably much different. I’m thinking of the SCVA HP tryout also, for same reasons. And even if selected I’m not paying $2,500 per kid. Both are OH so adjusting to multiple setters is a challenge too. SCVA IS $2500 this year? 😳😳😳 sorry your experience was a negative. From SCVA's HP page: "The approximate cost to participate is $1,850.00 per athlete. The athletes are provided with complete gear from head to toe. The teams travel together and this year the event is in Fort Lauderdale, FL. And, airfare and accommodations are included. Meals while at the tournament are not included." I've seen the $2.5k number before as well, and that total sounds about right - meals, incidentals, and spending money could easily hit $650. A prior version of that page may have had it as the estimated total. SCVA's all A1, with 15 boys max for both Select and Youth (basically, 18u and 16u, but calendar year, not sept. to sept.) So, as above, my kid's doing it for the t-shirt/experience of the tryout, 0 expectation of an offer. The future select (8th graders and under - 05 and 06) looks like a pretty sweet deal: 40 to 50 boys, local (well, Anaheim), with their own tourney. If I had a 13/14u kid, I'd be all over that. |
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Post by westcoastbias on May 31, 2019 12:14:26 GMT -5
The future select (8th graders and under - 05 and 06) looks like a pretty sweet deal: 40 to 50 boys, local (well, Anaheim), with their own tourney. If I had a 13/14u kid, I'd be all over that. One note on the Future Select - looks like the 8th grade exception year is in place for those 2004 b-day kids that are still in 8th/middle school. On a personal note, my kid is a 2005 Summer birthday 7th grader. He will finally have the option to play his actual age next year, and will never play his age in CBVA (no exception years there). But, if I'm reading all of this right, is his birthday/birth-year an actual advantage for once?? Lol... |
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Post by teamjess on May 31, 2019 12:52:23 GMT -5
SCVA IS $2500 this year? 😳😳😳 sorry your experience was a negative. From SCVA's HP page: "The approximate cost to participate is $1,850.00 per athlete. The athletes are provided with complete gear from head to toe. The teams travel together and this year the event is in Fort Lauderdale, FL. And, airfare and accommodations are included. Meals while at the tournament are not included." I've seen the $2.5k number before as well, and that total sounds about right - meals, incidentals, and spending money could easily hit $650. A prior version of that page may have had it as the estimated total. SCVA's all A1, with 15 boys max for both Select and Youth (basically, 18u and 16u, but calendar year, not sept. to sept.) So, as above, my kid's doing it for the t-shirt/experience of the tryout, 0 expectation of an offer. The future select (8th graders and under - 05 and 06) looks like a pretty sweet deal: 40 to 50 boys, local (well, Anaheim), with their own tourney. If I had a 13/14u kid, I'd be all over that. I forgot that SCVA included flights and $1850 is more like I remembered from previous years. In the past A1 and SCVA was equivalent in cost but SCVA included flights and A1 you have to get your own flight - but A1 included more days on site so more hotel nights because the training for A1 happened on location and the SCVA training happened before they traveled. When I saw the $2500 number I thought that was a huge jump from past A1 prices. |
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Post by bealzabubba on May 31, 2019 12:55:06 GMT -5
Didn't catch the "or" for SCVA future select- that's different than USAV, which is hard and fast on calendar year.
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Post by yorktowne12 on May 31, 2019 13:57:19 GMT -5
SCVA is the top HP program with all the bells and whistles. Staff, Admin, Collegiate Coaches coaching, Scouting team and devices. I wish we could do all that in PA. In years past our HP program for the past 4-5 years was free except you paid your own meals. We even paid for snacks, water, gatorade and protein bars in between matches. Currently this year we are $500.00 and you pay your meals. "But were not anywhere near the level SCVA is at with all they have to offer. Side note  our team should be good this year. See everyone in florida. |
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Post by bealzabubba on May 31, 2019 15:26:42 GMT -5
yorktowne12 how do you compare what USAV does to SCVA? Meaning, when you said SCVA was "the top HP program" were you limiting the compliment to the regional HP programs? I'm curious (no offers here): If you had a choice, which would you do / recommend? My gut reaction is the order would be USAV, SCVA, other regional HP's, but that may simply be uninformed bias towards the larger organizations. I'm assuming A1 here, because I'm further assuming that Regional A1 > USAV A2 because of the tournament (feel free to correct me if you think that's wrong, too).
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Post by teamjess on May 31, 2019 16:05:35 GMT -5
yorktowne12 how do you compare what USAV does to SCVA? Meaning, when you said SCVA was "the top HP program" were you limiting the compliment to the regional HP programs? I'm curious (no offers here): If you had a choice, which would you do / recommend? My gut reaction is the order would be USAV, SCVA, other regional HP's, but that may simply be uninformed bias towards the larger organizations. I'm assuming A1 here, because I'm further assuming that Regional A1 > USAV A2 because of the tournament (feel free to correct me if you think that's wrong, too). When we went to tryouts (it was a joint tryout with SCVA/USAV several years ago) we were told A1>Regional/Continental>A2>A3 obviously at the Youth Level, BYNTT was the the highest. |
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Post by yorktowne12 on May 31, 2019 17:22:18 GMT -5
I was limiting that to just regional programs. As for my guys at Yorktowne if they didn't make Boys Youth or Junior National "If they made A1 or lower" they went with the KRVA team. Why?? we are much cheaper "heck free most years" and they are getting same exposure as the A1 guys. We have been in the running many times at HP and have two medals, but we come with one team each year for the college exposure. I'm not gonna say which way to go BUT if your looking to play for one of the coaches coaching the scva team go that way? If you want to play for a USA hp team, go that way. We're all playing in the same event. |
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our team should be good this year.